You people that are saying Hakeem is more dominating and using his athleticism as a reason are off. The ultimate purpose of a player taking a shot is to score a bucket. Shaq could look like a lumbering fool, but if he scores, it's 2 points. Hakeem could be taking 20 footers with spin moves, but guess what? It's still 2 points. More skill and athleticism does not equate to greater dominance. Leave your heart out of it and think objectively... Shaq is every bit as dominant, if not moreso, than Hakeem. Hakeem is the better "all-around-dominator". Shaq would've bruised anybody in any era. I don't care if it was Wilt or Godzilla. ------------------ "We need a chicken butt." -- heypartner is moving swiftly to help make the CC.net BBS more efficient and run faster. RAM was the first step, apparently this is the second!
How about this: if Hakeem and Shaq both play against Mutombo, who can score more points? The only thing I know is that Mutombo will probably score zero with Hakeem defending him. ------------------ "It is like 'Lord, give me my soldiers, and I will take you to the promise land.' That is what he does." ........ Sam Cassel on Hakeem in 95 playoffs
Mutombo would have a hard time scoring against Cato. ------------------ If the 3 pointer was banned by the nba, No amount of money would make him stay. Air Bullard, Air Buuuuuulllll, Air Buuuullll Can't stop Bull.
Um, no he isn't. Bill Russell was the greatest defensive center ever. No one kept records of block shots in his day, or Hakeem would still be chasing him. The reason Wilt only one 1 (or 2?) championships is that he dominated everyone in the league except Russell. And Russell won 11 championships. ------------------ Behad Sergeant at Arms of the Clutch BBS
Shaq has better stats and he has played in a big market team. Also the fact that English is second language of Hakeem, that's why shaq gets more attention. All i know is that i'll take a team of five clones of Hakeem over five clones of shaq any day of the week. ------------------ Baseball is wrong, a man with four balls can't walk.
He has a nice drop-step. And countless nicknames. And who is? I would say MJ was pretty good on both sides of the ball. Payton has been a more recent example. Here is my list of all time best 1. Hakeem 2. Jabbar/Russel/Chaimberlain/Shaq Hakeem gets the nod because he played against the best competition, and had no flaws. Chamberlain and Shaq couldn't/can't hit free throws. Russel's offensive capabilities weren't as great as his 4 counterparts. Jabbar also had a complete game. But when it boils down, I think Dream was the better player. Honorable Mentions:Robinson, Ewing Wouldn't it be great if they all played in their primes now to see who was better. Put MJ in their to end the "MJ vs Wilt vs Dream vs anyone else who you want to throw in" argument. ------------------ Never Underestimate the Heart of a Champion
Um Behad put Hakeem in Russell's time and Hakeem would have averaged a triple double (10 Blocks) Put Russell in Hakeem's time and you have cato ------------------ Rasheed Wallace gots mad skilz. Who cares about the techs?
Stopping your opponent from scoring makes a great defensive player. I agree that Hakeem is a great defensive center, the second greatest ever. But Russell is the best. Wilt could score at will on any player in the league....except Russell. Russell drove him nuts. I was young, but I remember seeing him play, and he dominated like no one did then or does now. Hakeem, in my opinion, is tied with Wilt and Kareem and Russell for greatest center ever. But Russell was the greatestdefensive center ever. No question. ------------------ Behad Sergeant at Arms of the Clutch BBS
Russel was the original defender, but not the best ever. He had to play against mostly 6-7 centers, and a generally low level of talent. Hakeem would have dominated that time period with ease. In today's game, Russel would be better than Cato. He would play power forward, and do a good job of it. Hakeem would have swatted shots left and right in that time period. He'd have about 10 times his current total. Russel was an inovative center. He changed the game. That doesn't mean he was the best ever. Of course, I wasn't around when Russel played, so I'm probably full of sh**! ------------------ Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon is the greatest player in the history of basketball. If you disagree, you are not a Rocket fan. [This message has been edited by ZRB (edited March 29, 2001).]
Chamberlein had no problem scoring against Russel. Russel just got some rebounds from him and had better scoring teammates. But Chamberlein got bullied by the young Jabbar. Chamberlein wasn't too old then. Jabbar was not known for his defense. There is no way Russel could defend better than Hakeem. ------------------ "'Lord, give me my soldiers, and I will take you to the promise land.' That is what he does." ........ Sam Cassel on Hakeem in 95 playoffs
i dont know, maybe being the alltime blocks leader is considered defense? I mean Hakeem is shorter then 7', like Shaq. Also, i think another reason why Shaq isnt better is because of the "Hack a Shaq" philosophy. All the great players, like Hakeem, could be counted on at the clutch. How can you count on Kazaam? I mean why would you count on anyone who has made some of the worst movies of all-time!!! ------------------
How about the cliche question of...If you were starting a team and could have Shaq or The Dream who do you take? (Yes, in their primes, which I think is right now for Shaq barring his FT's). ------------------
All right all right...you got me with wilt's free throw %...(that's why I added that little "of course I may be off..I have no idea how Chamberlein was at FTs" clause). how bout this: if you cant make free throws AND cant score 100 points in a game, then you cant be better than dream... Still, I like Shaq..I think he's the dominant center of today without question...maybe one day he will be one of the greatest (since I've been made to swallow my FT error ) But to already put him higher than Hakeem? no way...not yet...what if Shaq clocks Kobe in the head tomorrow and injures his own hand so bad it ends his career...Will his career, as it stands today match up with Hakeem's? It's way too early to put him on the cover of the "center history book." Those that put him on the greatest in history list already are betting on future projections based on the present. But, like I said, I guess someone can be great *gulp* without FTs (I still think it shaves down greatness though!)...just too soon to put shaq in that category yet... ------------------ "It's finger ling ling good!" - Homer Simpson's opinion of Kentucky Fried Panda
MAYBE we are looking at it all wrong. Maybe instead of judging what the all time greats did well, we look at their flaws. What flaws did Olajuwon have in his prime? What weaknesses did Russell, Chamberlin, Jabbar and Shaq have? Russell wasnt a great scorer, Wilt had FT problems with a 51% mark, and Shaq has his FT problems. Only Jabbar and Olajuwon emerge from this list without any glaring weaknesses. I really feel Jabbar is #1 among centers with Dream being right there with him at #2. ------------------ Don't EVER underestimate the Heart of a CHAMPION!
Dream is the most complete center ever. A quick look at the all-time stat sheets proves this. Sure Shaq can score. Thats about it though. Dream played and dominated in the era of centers in their prime. No way Wilt gets 100 if he played in the last 25 years. There is no one in their prime to compete with Shaq. ------------------ "The idea of a band nowadays is five pretty boys, one with a tattoo, one with a shaved head, and on and on. I mean, I like Britney Spears, I think she's pretty, but I'm not from the Mickey Mouse Club. I'm from the Godzilla club!" ---Ozzy Osbourne [This message has been edited by Lynus302 (edited March 30, 2001).]
Hakeem is the greatest because of his skills on the court, and general attitude on and off the court. He's also the greatest because unlike Shaq, he doesn't need media hype to be recognized as a great one. I like Shaq, but he isn't even close to Dream. He's a good scorer, but Hakeem is a far better basketball player. ------------------ Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon is the greatest player in the history of basketball. If you disagree, you are not a Rocket fan.
Dream is much more agile with quicker feet. IMO, he's a better shot blocker. He has a better and deeper jump shot. He has quicker hands. More steals. He's obviously better from the line. Dream in his prime could probably score just as easily as Shaq does now. Shaq, being as huge as he is, is just a bigger force and has an easier time scoring. A lot of Shaq's scoring consists of a single drop step move from the low post concluded by a dunk. Dream had an array of moves involving a little more skill. I don't know if this would make Dream better, but I sure would rather watch Dream in his prime rather than watching Shaq now. ------------------ "...just because a clever person can complicate the discussion about the truth doesn't necessarily mean he or she is making any progress in finding it."
Shaq is a dominating player...I'll give him that. He is large and can push players around. He rebounds and knocks guys out of the way to score. I think that's the problem. Shaq has to cheat to score. Almost every move he has consists of him putting his shoulder into the defender's chest and pushing forward (short of that little baby hook he has, which is actually a good little shot). That should be an offensive foul. If a player has position, pushing him over and dunking on him is not a legitimate NBA move, except in this day and age. If Shaq played 25-35 years ago in the NBA, he would have fouled out in every game. That is the NBA for you, however. The league has toned down the rules to allow its stars to shine. The refs call traveling about twice a game just to say that they did, but you could probably call it every other play. More respect from the refs and the league goes to he player that charges towards the basket, and a great many times Shaq does this with authority, bowling players out of the way. By the rules of the NBA...that's illegal, except in his case. Its just another case of the NBA protecting its stars. Lets look at Dream...most of his moves consisted of spinning off defenders, fading away from the basket, or going around the defender to get to the basket. Sure, he got away with a step here and there, and maybe a little arm hook to get to the basket, but that's nothing compared to what Shaq gets away with. Hakeem always got disrespected by the refs...How many times did Dream pop a smooth baseliner with a defender hanging all over his arm and not get the foul?...Compare that with how many times that Shaq puts his shoulder into the defender, knocks the defender over, dunks, and gets the foul on the defener for blocking. I think if you truly look at tape of Shaq, you see that he gets away with a lot and most of his moves are based on force. I guess one could say that he uses what the refs give him and if its not called, its not a foul. Fair enough, but that's not fair to Shaq's game. I think if he was forced to re-evaluate his game and make it have some finesse and moves, he could be a MUCH better player. Shaq has what you can't teach, size and strength. If he was forced to abandon his bull moves (illegal) and move to a more finesse oriented game, I think he could because he has the raw tools to do it. He already has impressed me with a few little baseline hook shots that he has developed. Despite what some people have said, Shaq does have some speed and quickness. He moves that huge frame with better than most would be able to. Anyways, I'm rambling....my point is, is that Dream is a better player than Shaq. Shaq scores hella-points, and rebounds well...but he doesn't domintate on both sides of the court like Hakeem. I'll shut up now cause its 3:35 a.m. and I should sleep cause I have an 8 a.m. class tomorrow. ------------------ Doink! [This message has been edited by Supermac34 (edited March 30, 2001).]
