A lot of people are starting to put Shaq in front of Hakeem as a better center in history. Remeber Don Nelson said a few weeks ago when commenting on Hakeem? "He is in the top 5 centers of all time, with Russel, Chamberlein, Jabbar and Shaq." More poeple will say the same thing if Shaq ever wins another trophy. My roommates say even in Hakeem's prime, he could only battled the young Shaq to a draw in 95 finals. So how do you think we can counter this argument? Honestly speaking, I think Shaq may be a more dominant CENTER, but Hakeem is a much better PLAYER for his longer range and forward-like skills. ------------------ "It is like 'Lord, give me my soldiers, and I will take you to the promise land.' That is what he does." ........ Sam Cassel on Hakeem in 95 playoffs
A draw. I thought a 4-0 series sweep and another championship trohpy meant Hakeem won. Regardless, there are a lot of things that go into being a dominant player. Shaq has a lot of those qualities. However, he still will never be nearly as dominant defensively as Hakeem was and he still onyl has 1 ring and he still hasnt played for as long as Hakeem has. Right now, biased or unbiased, an argument can not even be close to being made that Shaq is a better center than Hakeem. Maybe when both careers are over, but Hakeem is in the top 5 now, Shaq isnt. Its really funny to look at Shaq's center competition and Hakeem's. Hakeem had D-Rob, Ewing, Mutombo, all in their prime. Shaq's main competition at center is Mourning and thats about it. ------------------
To a draw? The stats and of course wins were in Hakeem's favor. The biggest part of being a great one is your effect on your team and if you can win championships, which is what counts, not individual numbers. The way Hakeem and the Rockets dominated the Magic that series-- if your roommates think Dream and Shaq battled to a draw they obviously aren't too bright on the subject. ------------------ "We're not settling for just getting in the playoffs." "We want a higher seed. There's no doubt. We expect to get in."-- Steve Francis President of the Mo Taylor and Jason Collier fan club! Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com [This message has been edited by The Cat (edited March 29, 2001).]
Hakeem changed the position. He broke the rules. He set a standard for others to follow. Shaq is awesome and in the long run, will be considered top 5. The problem is that the media gave him that label way too soon. It was assumed. While Shaq is power and might, Hakeem is grace and speed. Just as no center can match Shaqs might, no center could touch Hakeem's footwork. Oh, and Hakeem has a move named after him, Shaq doesn't. ------------------
The Jersey Numbers say it all . Shaq is a great player and unstoppable in the post , but Dream was/is much more versatile . Shaq also has great respect for Dream which I have to respect as well . My Top 5 Wilt Chamberlain Hakeem Olajuwon Bill Russell Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Shaq ------------------ "Eat your kids, play with your dinner and join the chat" - Dr of Dunk gives a public sevice announcement at the request of Mike Tyson . [This message has been edited by moestavern19 (edited March 29, 2001).]
This may sound trivial, but until Shaq starts hitting free-throws consistently he can not be considered a dominant center in history. The removal of that scoring option erases one whole dimension of his game. I know he hit some big ones last year when he needed to...but still, overall I think that decreases him on the greatness scale. Still, he is the dominant center in the game today...but in all NBA history?? hmmmm of course I may be off..I have no idea how Chamberlein was at FTs...but in Hakeem's case, if teams didnt foul him, they paid for it...they also paid if they did foul him. Another thing about that comparison...I think Hakeem dominated at a time when there were several viable centers. Ewing, Robinson, Hakeem, Motumbo, a young but talented Shaq...Now, as Shaq is coming of age, those centers are in the twilights of their careers and no replacements, it seems, have emerged who can fill their shoes. so in other words, hakeem was able to dominate in an era of great centers. Shaq is dominating in an era where good cnters are hard to come by. I think shaq is extremely talented, but still largely unproven against the greats of the game. ------------------ "It's finger ling ling good!" - Homer Simpson's opinion of Kentucky Fried Panda
Hack-a-Shaq ? ------------------ "Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."- (Aldous Huxley)
Only time will tell. Hakeem constantly worked on his game to better himself. He would regularly develop new moves and shots. He worked on his FT shooting to become respectable. You NEVER saw Hakeem taken out of a game because the coach was afraid he'd be fouled. Hakeem has an incredible grace and range to his game that Shaq currently does not show. If Shaq would truly dedicate himself to improving his all around game (perhaps he does) as much as Hakeem did then he may eventually overtake Hakeem. Shaq is an incredible force but you would never mistake him for anything other than a center. Meanwhile, you can look at Hakeem and see small forward skills. If Shaq's career ended after this season (even if the Lakers win the championship) he will still be a distance behind Hakeem. ------------------
How about my grandma is a better free throw shooter than Shaq. Or Shaq can't carry a team the way Olajuwon has throughout his career. The Lakers have been killed the past couple of games w/o Kobe. ------------------
The free throw argument doesn't work, unless you think Wilt's career 51% keeps him from being one of the all time greats. ------------------ Behad Sergeant at Arms of the Clutch BBS [This message has been edited by Behad (edited March 29, 2001).]
Teh biggest difference is the national media loves Shaq. The national media didn't really disrespect Dream, but Dream wasn't the one-line machine like Shaq (or like CB4). Naturally since the press loves Shaq he gets much more press. Up to this point Dream has had the better career, but Shaq could potentially have a beter career (especially if the Lakers stay together and win a few more championships).
Hakeem is... "Have-to-Have" baskets late in the game Free throws in the last minute Blocks and intimidations to preserve the victory Rebounds that swing the momentum Steals that demoralize Speed that kills Quickness that disorients Leadership that inspires Grace to be emulated. Shaq is a powerful force in today's game, but I have to agree with the sentiments already expressed: Hakeem is the better basketball player and one who revolutionized the position. In short, Hakeem is clutch.
I agree with JayZ. Look at the comp Hakeem faced. He played Robinson, Ewing, Mutombo, etc. all in their primes, played against Abdul-Jabbar, Parrish, and Malone and now plays against the only decent primal centers in the league in Shaq and Zo. Shaq just doesn't really have any good comp which makes him APPEAR to be so great, I mean if you don't have anyone stopping you from getting points and rebounds then you're going to get a ton of them which is what Shaq is doing today but Hakeem had to work for the majority of his. ------------------ Arkansas' Biggest Rocket Fan!
Its not the knowledgeable basketball people that constantly put Shaq in fron of the Dream. Its mostly the ignorant fans. I think most of the media types and columnists would put Hakeem ahead of O'Neal at this point in their careers. I really dont see how Shaq could suprass the Dream. Olajuwon had the most incredible foot work of all time, a deadly jumper, a MVP, Defensive award, Playoff MVP, all in the same year. He has more recorded blocks than anyone else in the in history and won a championship were the second best player was um... Well there was no clear cut 2nd best, just role players and chemistry. ------------------
Well, some of you guys beat me to Valio!'s throat on the "if you can't hit your FT's, you can't be considered dominant" angle. That's like saying because Bill Russell didn't display offensive prowess like other centers, he can't be considered great. The more I watch Shaq, the more I believe he is the more dominating player on offense. Hakeem is the more skilled player on offense, but Shaq's dominance is more magnified by the fact that you know the guy basically operates 15-feet and in and yet, you still can't stop him. Hakeem was murder to guard for opposing centers because of his quickness, Shaq is murder when he gets the ball down low. On a scale of 1-10 on offense, I'd give Shaq a 9.5 and Hakeem a 9.4. That close. Hakeem is the more dominating force on defense however. His defense altered games. Most times you see Shaq gasping for air trying to keep up with other players. Let me see Shaq run down a 6'3" PG and swat his shot into the seats. Shaq doesn't have the quickness on defense that Hakeem does. Shaq's size is his greatest weapon on offense, but probably his greatest weakness on defense. On Defense Shaq gets a 7 On Defense Hakeem gets a 9.5 Hakeem is the 2nd most dominant player on both sides of the ball since I started watching basketball in the late 70's. ...and Shaq ain't #1. ------------------ "We need a chicken butt." -- heypartner is moving swiftly to help make the CC.net BBS more efficient and run faster. RAM was the first step, apparently this is the second! [This message has been edited by Dr of Dunk (edited March 29, 2001).]
Since Wilt was before my time I have a question to ask all of the dinosaurs ( ) in here. Did the old teams hack Wilt like Shaq is hacked now? Was Wilt at all clutch when he HAD to make his throws or did he brick them no matter how important they were at the time? Just curious ------------------ If the 3 pointer was banned by the nba, No amount of money would make him stay. Air Bullard, Air Buuuuuulllll, Air Buuuullll Can't stop Bull.
I believe that once both have retired and you take a good look at both in their primes Hakeem will stand above Shaq. Hakeem has a much better shot, can hit FTs, has the best footwork and maybe is the quickest center of all time, and he is likely the greatest defensive center ever. Anyone know what # he is in steals for Centers? On the other hand, Shaq has very little range, cannot hit FTs, and is an average defender. Tell me this: If you had both Shaq and Hakeem on the same team, who would you want to have the ball during the most important stages of the game? This doesn't determine who is the greatest, but it gives a lot of support to Dream. ------------------
I like the points about Hakeem faces a tougher competition than Shaq. How could I have forgotten that?! Yeah, Shaq's numbers should be discounted. I am also going to say that Hakeem is more complete, versatile, has a longer range. Hence he can be used more flexibly by the coach, making his team and everyone around him better. I was watching NBA video on Dream. He was so atheletic in his earlier years. ------------------ "It is like 'Lord, give me my soldiers, and I will take you to the promise land.' That is what he does." ........ Sam Cassel on Hakeem in 95 playoffs
Shaq would've annihilated Robert Parish and made "The Big Chief" pack up his wig-wam and leave town. Moses would've been leading his ass into the wilderness after the pounding he would've taken from Shaq. Shaq would have dominated Robinson down low like he always has and sent the Admiral home looking like a spineless squid. Shaq would've given Ewing knee problems ahead of time had they both clashed in their primes. You guys have got to be kidding me if you don't think Shaq would've been dominant in ANY era. Shaq would've scored on anybody; but then any of those guys I just mentioned could score on Shaq. Robinson in his prime could've lit Shaq up from all over the floor with 15-18 footers. Hakeem did. Ewing possibly the same. For the most part, Hakeem could not stop Shaq when they played, Shaq could not Hakeem. Hakeem was probably best or 2nd best defensive center to play the game, but even he had a hell of a time trying to contain the Shaq Beast. ------------------ "We need a chicken butt." -- heypartner is moving swiftly to help make the CC.net BBS more efficient and run faster. RAM was the first step, apparently this is the second!
