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Is it possible for a player to improve, yet have worse statistics?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by plutoblue11, Jun 21, 2018.

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  1. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    This could apply to any sport. I hear people say this alot, and I do think it's true to some extent, especially with rookies, younger players, and aging players. Can a player actually be better than a previous year or season, but have worse stats across the board? Can statistics be misleading? Examples:

    Player A is 35, drastically declining in metrics across the board, such as home runs, RBIs, or on base percentage. Yet, has less strike-outs, more walks, and sacrificed hits, even slight better in the fielding.


    In NFL, 3rd year QB, rookie season was pretty good 28-32 tds only about 12-13 ints, similar in 2nd season, yet in 3rd season...Tds are down to low 20s, while ints are up, along with a slightly decreased cmp%. Yet, the offensive coordinator/head coach/staff says that the player has actually gotten better at reading coverages, spreading the ball around to different receivers, getting rid of ball when necessary, and much quicker, and taking less sacks. Becoming more influential in the locker room, most of all.


    In NBA, aging superstar, 35-36, was once a perennial top 5 scorer, but was none for being a ball-hog and atrocious on defense. But, now said superstar is more of 14-16 ppg being slightly worse in fg%/3pt%, but is now much improved defender and is much more willing passer (assists are still low, compared to career average).
     
    #1 plutoblue11, Jun 21, 2018
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  2. don grahamleone

    don grahamleone Contributing Member

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    I'll bite... Melo?
     
    #2 don grahamleone, Jun 21, 2018
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  3. malakas

    malakas Member

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    yes of course.
    A player can ballhog in a bad team and then get traded to a better team and his stats fall but he actually plays defence and improves his shot selection and his efg%.
     
    #3 malakas, Jun 21, 2018
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  4. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    Not Melo, improved defense and more willing passer, definitely not him.
     
    #4 plutoblue11, Jun 21, 2018
  5. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    melo improved defense? did you post that correctly?
     
    #5 YOLO, Jun 21, 2018
  6. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    Not Melo, improved defense and more willing passer, definitely not him.
     
    #6 plutoblue11, Jun 21, 2018
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  7. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I would argue that Al Horford is better now than he has ever been.
     
    #7 Nook, Jun 21, 2018
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  8. don grahamleone

    don grahamleone Contributing Member

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    I'm not sure this person exists. No one is 35-36 and averaging 16 ppg now.

    Time to give up your player.
     
    #8 don grahamleone, Jun 21, 2018
  9. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    That's a great example, I think he was a little underrated at times, in Atlanta, but he has actually turned into a better player, even though the stats are roughly the same and worse in some regards.
     
    #9 plutoblue11, Jun 21, 2018
  10. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Contributing Member

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    The most recent I remember is Robert Covington on the sixers. Year one he was stroking like we all remembered from his rgv d-league stint.

    But the next year his shot really fell off but his defense got realllly good.

    At that time, he was much less efficient and had worse stats but was a much better player.

    He’s finally put all of it together to become a very good 3nD
     
    #10 BigMaloe, Jun 21, 2018
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  11. roksoer

    roksoer Member

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    Z-BO?

    He didn't have that dramatic a drop off in stats, but he was a dramatically different and better player once he got to Memphis.
     
    #11 roksoer, Jun 21, 2018
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  12. MrButtocks

    MrButtocks Contributing Member

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    In Miami Antoine Walker had a career low in PER, points per 36, rebounds per 36, and assists per 36, but I think that was the first time he played decent basketball in his career. He didn't hog the ball and played defense. He was a decent role player. If he played his usual basketball he would've been out of the rotation. I was extremely surprised.
     
    #12 MrButtocks, Jun 21, 2018
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  13. CCorn

    CCorn Member

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    Bosh was a stud in Miami even though his stats suffered
     
    #13 CCorn, Jun 21, 2018
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  14. BackdoorHarden

    BackdoorHarden Member

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    who he?
     
    #14 BackdoorHarden, Jun 21, 2018
  15. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Contributing Member

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    Ariza when he was our #1 guy vs our #3 guy.
     
    #15 RedRedemption, Jun 22, 2018
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  16. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    MJ in his mid 30s. Still winning MVPs doing it differently and worse stats all across the board. He slowed the game down and was smarter, stronger and perfected certain skills
     
    #16 Caesar, Jun 22, 2018
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  17. Ziggy

    Ziggy QUEEN ANON

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    Happens all the time... in Orlando Shaq averaged more points, rebounds, steals, blocks, FT%, FG% and minutes. He even made more 3's. But never finished on an All NBA 1st team and was criticized for not giving much effort on defense.

    WIth the Lakers he racked up rings and was unstoppable in the paint.

    You don't have to look in hay to find obscure examples. Shaq. One of the biggest names in sports history.
     
    #17 Ziggy, Jun 22, 2018
  18. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    See. This example I take the opposite stance on. Orlando Magic Shaq was a perfect combination of size and strength + mobility and athleticism for a true big. The reason he didn't have the accolades was because the league was stacked with incredible bigs during Shaq's early career. Lakers Shaq just got bigger with much higher body fat and lazier with much less stamina and more injury prone. Difference? All the great Centers retired and or got into their late 30s(old) and there was barely any above average Centers left in the league. He dominated scrub opposing Centers on teams with amazing PF's Shaq didn't have to match up with. His team and coach was better when they started winning championships after what? 4 First round exits? Phil and Kobe and tons of former all stars trumps Orlando's team from top to bottom.


    I personally take Orlando Shaq over LA Shaq any day. He's the kind of player that never really improved on any skill and just relied on physical gifts to dominate. Those players usually always fall off by 32-33 years old when the physical gifts greatly diminish and everyone else can match or exceed those physical gifts.
     
    #18 Caesar, Jun 22, 2018
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  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy QUEEN ANON

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    So what. The goal is to put the ball in the basket, defend, rebound. Not win the combine.
     
    #19 Ziggy, Jun 22, 2018
  20. Cold Hard

    Cold Hard Member

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    NBA? Yes.
    NFL? Hard to say. I'm leaning no. (Edit: It may depend on the position the player plays, and the team's system.)
    MLB? Probably not.
     
    #20 Cold Hard, Jun 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
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