It will be interesting to see how good Amare is now that he doesn't have Marbury and Penny sucking in defenses and feeding him for easy dunks.
I wonder how SF feels about all this.. seeing another primetime PG supposed franchise player getting traded away. Probably makes him worry too.. of course he has nothing to worry about since we are winning.. but that has got to be on his mind. Dont you think? J
I don't know why people think Marbury is a cancer. Sure he has a bad mouth but he has really improved his PG skills the last couple of years and is IMO a top three PG in the league right now. He's going to help the Knicks a lot. Isiah understands what Laydon doesn't. You can't rebuild in NY no matter how good your plan is. The fans, the media, and the organization all have zero patience. Thomas has now assembled a team that will consistently make the playoffs, although they have little chance of winning the whole thing for the next decade. As for the Kobe to the Suns scenario, I dont see it happening. I just don't see Bryant leaving LA, although he may indeed change uniforms. I really admire what the suns scouts have done the last couple of years. Amare was a huge steal and Carpakappa (sp?) will be a very good player in this league. The trade neted them another two top Euro prospects. Lampe IMO can be a very special player. I watched this kid in the summer leagues and was really impressed. He has all the tools to be a great inside-outside player and has that mentality to get better (which we all hope that Yao Ming can learn someday). Vajunic was hands down the best PG in Europe last year, but he is one of those top Euro players who simply hate the NBA (hence we may never see him here). Barbosa is a great prospect as well and now he will finally get playing time. This kid is 6'4" with a 7-foot wingspan, really athletic, and has three point range. Once he learns to play within a system he could be a very good player. I really think that the suns scouting team rank right up there with the Kings' and the Spurs' as some of the best scouts in the league. The Rockets scouts, however, have not impressed me at all for quite a long time.
He only great when folx wanna bash SF . . . But Marbury does bring NY BACK to the playoffs. IMO Phoenix traded ACtually GAME for POTENTIAL GAME We all know about Potential right. . *cough*cough*griffin*cough* Rocket River
Where'd you hear that - just curious. It would make sense to move Marion right now, since he's in his prime and wouldn't figure into a 3 yr rebuilding plan. PHX could be looking at Denver and have hope for a quick turnaround. They can still package him with Googs if they want, but I'd guess that draft picks and cap space are more important. As for Starbury, I'll always look at him as a more athletic version of Kevin Johnson. Like almost all scoring PGs in the league, with a few exceptions like Mark Price and Isiah Thomas, he gets his assists (largely from drive-and-dishes) but dominates the ball to the point that his teammates are looking for scraps more than being involved in the offense. That has separated the Cassells and Starburys of the world from the Stocktons and Kidds. I'm going to be careful about predicting the future of Lampe and Vujanic, if only because it's tricky to predict how the players pan out. It is an enviable place to start a rebuilding process. Evan
I heard from some guys who knows Lampe really well that he had a girlfriend in New York,guess se´es not happy......but she is a modell anyway so she can hook up with marbury
More trades coming for Suns and Knicks? By Chad Ford ESPN NBA Insider Updated: January 6 9:33 AM ET Stunned. That's the only way to describe my reaction when sources told Insider on Monday morning that the Suns had sent Stephon Marbury, Penny Hardaway and Cezary Trybanski to the Knicks for Antonio McDyess, Charlie Ward, Howard Eisley, Maciej Lampe, the draft rights to Milos Vujanic, two first-rounders, including an unprotected Knicks' first this year, and cash. The trade meant many things that were essentially inconceivable two weeks ago. * Within a space of two weeks, Isiah Thomas found a way to trade two players who were thought to be virtually untradeable -- Clarence Weatherspoon and Howard Eisley -- and a number of spare parts -- Antonio McDyess, Charlie Ward, Maciej Lampe -- and somehow parleyed them into the all-star point guard who Knicks fans had been clamoring for the last few years and one of the better backup point guards in the league in Moochie Norris. [LOL!] * Within a span of roughly 100 games, the Suns have gone from the popular 2002 preseason pick to be the worst team in the West, ascended to the title of best young up-and-coming team in the league when they pushed the World Champion Spurs to the brink in the first round of the playoffs and then descended back to where we all thought that we would be in October of 2002 -- at the bottom of the well in the West. * In a league where things like the luxury tax, salary cap and long-term financial obligations really matter, the Knicks agreed to send out roughly $16.8 million in guaranteed contracts while agreeing to take on roughly $123 million in salaries from two players. When Suns GM Bryan Colangelo calls those numbers "staggering" he's not kidding. I did a quick search through trades over the past five years and could not find a trade even close to that $100 plus million disparity. That also means that the Suns are on the verge of one of the biggest cap-clearing jobs in NBA history. Before Monday's trade, their payroll stood at around $66 million this year and was projected to fall at around $58 million in 2004. Currently their cap number is number is $61 million (once they dump Charlie Ward), and in the summer of 2004 their cap number could be as low as $36 million. Add in the cash that the Knicks threw in and the Suns netted roughly $10 million extra from the trade this season, and slashed another $22 million from payroll next year. * Say what you will about Isiah Thomas, but he did more in two weeks than Scott Layden was able to get done in two-plus years. The difference? Sources claim that Layden had numerous offers on the table, but was paralyzed with fear about ever pulling the trigger. He felt his leash was short and he couldn't afford to make another big mistake via trade. He also was under pressure from owner James Dolan to start cutting costs, which would've made a deal like the one Thomas pulled off impossible. Thomas feels no such pressure. James Dolan empowered him to go out and remake the team in his image, at whatever the cost. Thomas hasn't hesitated. Whatever you think about the huge amount of salaries the Knicks swallowed ($92.8 million in guaranteed salaries in '04-05; $83.98 million in guaranteed salaries in '05-06) or the fact that Thomas mortgaged the future to make this trade, there's no question that Thomas has made this team much more talented -- on paper anyway. * With that said, Isiah better be right. Having an owner with unlimited funds is both a blessing and a curse. Only two other owners in the league, Mark Cuban and Paul Allen, probably had the wherewithal to pull the trigger on a trade like this. The ability to transcend the salary cap obviously creates jealousy among other GMs. But Thomas is quickly painting himself into a corner. He was able to make the trade he did because he had two players (McDyess and Ward) with expiring contracts. Now that the trade is complete, the Knicks' flexibility has virtually vanished. Word is that Thomas wants to give Kurt Thomas an extension, meaning that Michael Doleac, Frank Williams, Michael Sweetney, Othella Harrington and Cezary Trybanski are the only guys left who could be trade bait to a team looking to reduce its payroll. Combined they're due $8.8 million this year and $7.8 million next season. If Thomas tries to package them in a deal to get another big-time player (and the word is that's exactly what he's trying to do) virtually every player on his team will be locked into long-term deals. If this team fails to jel or compete for an championship, Thomas' wiggle room is gone and he'll be stuck, much like Layden was the past few seasons, with very few options. * The Suns better hope that Kobe loves the desert. As I wrote on Monday, the Suns, with a little more maneuvering, should be able to make a strong push for Bryant next summer when he hits free agency. Before the move, Kobe could talk about leaving the Lakers all he wanted, but where were the viable alternatives? The Clippers? They have a nice core with Elton Brand and Corey Maggette, but if Kobe really wanted to flee the limelight, changing locker rooms in the Staples Center probably doesn't get it done. The Jazz? They have the cash, but somehow I don't think they'd have the stomach to bring in Kobe, even if he is acquitted of all charges. The Nuggets? Again, Kiki would love to have him, but it's a bit of PR nightmare considering Kobe's legal problems all stem from Colorado. The Spurs? They're not close to having enough cap room to pursue him. Kobe would have to take a $10 million a year pay cut to play for any team over the cap. That leaves the Suns as, in my mind at least, the best alternative to the Lakers if Kobe decides to bolt. If he doesn't come to Phoenix, the other free-agent options out there aren't nearly as attractive. The Suns made this move with the thinking that they now had the flexibility to make a move or two to put them in contention for an NBA title. If they can't land a player of Kobe's caliber, however, I'm not sure that a core of Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion and a number of nice role players will be enough to get them there anytime soon. * The Suns are quickly catching up to the Mavericks and Pistons as the NBA's premiere embassy for international players. With Zarko Carbaraka, Leandrinho Barbosa and Maciej Lampe in the fold, Milos Vujanic on the way and Italian coach Mike D'Antoni at the helm, expect the Suns to start resembling the Mavs and Kings offensively. By the way, having D'Antoni as the coach of the Suns certainly doesn't hurt the team's chances of landing Kobe. Rumor has it that Kobe wears the No. 8 in honor of D'Antoni, who was a superstar in Italy when Kobe lived there as a kid. Said D'Antoni several weeks ago. "I don't know," D'Antoni told the Sacramento Bee. "It sounds good. It's a great story. Kobe grew up there. We were killing people (on the basketball floor), killing his dad. We had a lot of fun. I've known Kobe forever. ... Maybe if he ever goes with a retro jersey from Italy, I can get some royalties." Colangelo: "This was a fantasy deal" Suns GM Bryan Colangelo could see the writing on the wall, and he didn't like what he saw. "Basically we were a team with very few options," Colangelo told Insider on Monday. "We had so much long term money committed to Stephon, Penny and Shawn that we didn't have the flexibility to reshape the team the way we needed to. Now, we lots of options." Colangelo was nearing the end of his rope with the 12-22 Suns. He had already fired coach Frank Johnson, but the firing hadn't done much to stem the losing. The difficult decision before him was to either ride this thing out with the guys he had and hope they turned into a championship team or to take a once-in-a-lifetime deal -- move Marbury and Hardaway, clear $20 plus million off the books, go under the cap for the first time in awhile, pick up two draft picks and two top international prospects, and start fresh while keeping your two best young players -- Marion and Stoudemire -- together. "It was really a fantasy trade for us," Colangelo said. "Losing Stephon is hard and means will likely take a step back this year, but when you look at the numbers and the financial flexability the trade really gave us, it was staggering. Combine that with all of the young prospects we received and it was a once in a lifetime deal. I honestly believe that our future is now brighter than it has ever been." How can that be, considering the Suns gave away a 26-year-old all-star point guard and got nothing but Howard Eisley, expiring contracts, two young prospects and draft picks in return? Start with the money. There has been serious pressure from owner Jerry Colangelo to get under the tax threshold for some time. The Suns payroll now stands at around $61 million, still $4 million over the projected $57 million threshold for the luxury tax. If possible, the Suns would like to make another move that allowed them to get below the threshold. They'd also like to get a little further under the cap for next summer, to give them more money to pursue a top-flight free agent. Even if they can't, the team netted nearly $10 million this season and saved $20 million next year by making the trade. Then figure in their love affairs with Lampe and Vujanic. "We really liked him in this year's draft," Colangelo said of Lampe. "I think he has the potential to be a very good center in the league. He's only 18, so you have to be patient, but we think he's got a bright future." Considering the Suns' other options at center are Jahidi White and Jake Voskuhl, expect Lampe to get the playing time he didn't receive in New York. Colangelo, who visits Italy frequently, also is high on Vujanic, who happens to be playing in Bologna. "I'm really intrigued by his talent," Colangelo said. "He's got all the tools to be a really good point guard." Colangelo said that he hasn't explored what it will take to get Vujanic to the Suns next season. Vujanic turned down a contract from the Knicks last season to play in Bologna and has hinted that he'll stay in Italy next season as well. However, Vujanic's biggest concern with the Knicks was playing time. He saw a logjam there at point guard and didn't want to mired at the end of the bench. Given the Suns' need, it appears that the opportunity is there for him to get significant playing time next season. Don't count out Barbosa either as the possible point guard of the future for the Suns. Colangelo said that Barbosa would get the opportunity to win the starting point guard position this season. He had 27 points Monday night in the first start of the season, which could bode well for his future with the team. "We've seen enough of him to believe that he's got a bright future and has the talent to be a player in the league," Colangelo said. "I think we'll use the rest of the season to see what he can bring us." Colangelo also didn't rule out resigning McDyess when he hits the free agent market this summer. "We've obviously always liked him and think, if he's healthy he could be a nice player for us," Colangelo told Insider. "I think we're going into the situation with Antonio with an open mind. We want to see how his knee holds up and whether he can regain the All-Star form he's played in the past." Will Gugliotta be the next Sun to go? Just hours before the Knicks, Suns trade went down, more rumors were flying that the Jazz and Suns were talking about a deal that would essentially send Tom Gugliotta and draft picks to the Jazz. In return, the Suns would net more cap space. Now with the Suns within four million of getting under the $57 million luxury tax and two more first round draft picks to work with, you have to believe that the Suns will be even more motivated to make this deal happen. The Jazz are roughly $8.7 million under the salary cap right now, meaning they can absorb a lot more salary than they have to send out in return. Since Gugliotta is in the last year of his contract, there are no long-term financial ramifications for the Jazz making the trade. They are essentially paying for draft picks. Two different scenarios have been flying around. One has the Suns swapping Gugliotta ($11.9 million this year), the Knicks first rounder and a Cavs first round pick (top 13 protected) owned by the Suns to Utah for Keon Clark ($5 million this year). That move would shave seven million off the Suns books immediately and get them well under the luxury tax threshold for the season. Considering that teams who are under the threshold get substantial rebates from the league as well, the move could end up netting the Suns somewhere between $15 and $20 million. The other scenario has the Suns sending Gugliotta, Jake Voskuhl ($1.5 million), Casey Jacobsen ($1 million) and the Knicks first rounder to Utah for Clark and DeShawn Stevenson ($1.6 million). That trade gives Utah a couple of young players in Jacobsen and Voskuhl who could actually help the team without cutting deeply into their cap space for next season. What's the advantage for the Suns in the second scenario? Stevenson also becomes a free agent this summer. If the Suns waive him, they clear another $2.5 million under the cap which they could use to help them lure a player like Kobe to Phoenix. Knicks may not be done dealing yet either Isiah Thomas has likely made the biggest trade he's going to make, but don't be surprised if a few smaller trades follow. Thomas tried to pry away Darius Miles from the Cavs last weekend, offering Charlie Ward in return. Cavs GM Jim Paxson wanted Frank Williams instead and Thomas balked. Now with Marbury and Norris in the fold, that deal probably sounds very appealing to Thomas. A Williams and Othella Harrington for Miles trade works under the cap and may make some sense for both parties. The Cavs have essentially given up on Miles. He's recorded four DNPs in as many games and is clearly out of favor with coach Paul Silas. While snagging Williams for a player once considered the most promising in the draft class of 2000 seems a bit under whelming, the Cavs need a young starting point guard and Williams has looked great the past week. On the Knicks end, there isn't much to lose. Your point guards are now in place and Isiah's next goal is to get more athletic in the front court. Miles would give the Knicks that. He's in the last year of his rookie contract meaning the Knicks have no long term obligation to him, but also own his Bird Rights if they do choose to resign him. The other big trade that Thomas was pursing was for Rasheed Wallace. Sources claim that Thomas was in heated talks with the Blazers, but that Blazers GM John Nash felt that he could get more for Wallace than just McDyess and Ward. Nash is still concerned about winning this season and felt that McDyess and Ward couldn't match the contributions on the court of Wallace. Now that Thomas has moved both players the chances of Thomas getting Wallace are pretty slim His one long shot may be to offer to take a couple of Nash's long term contracts off his hands in return for Wallace, much like he did with Portland. If Isiah was willing to swallow the contracts of Wallace, Ruben Patterson and Derek Anderson would the Blazers bite? Nash has been trying hard to get Patterson and Anderson out of Portland. Both are signed to long term deals that run through the 2006-07 season and both have had issues with coach Maurice Cheeks. The problem is that the only way the Knicks could afford to take on those contracts would be to ship two of their biggest contracts back in return. Thomas would give up good citizens like Allan Houston and Keith Van Horn in a heart beat to make that trade, but the long term effects would hurt the Blazers. As it stands, Wallace and his $17 million salary are set to come off the books this summer. Van Horn is signed through the 2005-06 season. Houston's deal runs through he 2006-07 season. The big salary hit would come in the summer of 2005. As it stands right now, the Blazers are looking at around $20 million in cap room in 2005 assuming they don't resign any of their free agents. If Nash pulled a trigger on the deal, the Blazers would only be around seven million under the cap. That's probably enough to scare them away. Ward on his way to the Spurs? Suns GM Bryan Colangelo confirmed that the Suns will waive Charlie Ward this week. Ward has a buyout clause in his contract that must be evoked by January 10th. The Suns will save roughly $3.5 million by waiving him and another $3.5 million in luxury tax penalties. Where will he end up? Sources claim that Thomas was working on a deal, before the Suns trade on Monday, that would've sent Ward to San Antonio as part of a three team deal that would sent Ron Mercer to Detroit and Bob Sura to New York. Now that Ward will be a free agent, he can choose where he wants to play. However, there are strong indications that he'll still land in San Antonio. The Spurs are desperate for a veteran point guard to back-up Tony Parker. Other teams including the Mavericks, Nets and Pacers have also shown interest in him.
The Suns were supposed to be the up and coming young team last year. Who would have thought they'd be gutting their team now and start over. What a difference a few months make.
Very good article. I used to think Phoenix was completely crazy. This helps me understand the trade a little better.
This is possibly the best trade in Knicks history. Knicks message board fans thought that Milos Vujanic was going to be the savior of the Knicks next year, when the guy doesn't even want to go to the NBA. 3) McDyess is under 30 and will be a dominating player again. He's nothing now.
Here are 3 more articles for your enjoyment. All 3 from Phoenix. Two of them pretty much bash the Suns for the move. The third talkes about the Suns most recent trades. Give you an idea of how the team was most recently built. As for the Knicks media feelings on the deal. Praise galore! Anyway, some interesting articles.... ### http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/0106bickley0106.html Trade looks more like surrender The Arizona Republic Jan. 6, 2004 12:00 AM This wasn't a blockbuster trade. This was a hope-buster trade. This was further proof that players come, players go and the Suns' only constant is panic. Bryan Colangelo, the trigger-happy general manager, simply gave away his best player on Monday, pawning off his only star in a league where stars run the show. After selling us a new future, a new buzz and a new Stephon Marbury, the Suns ripped up the blueprint after 34 games. That is shameful, shortsighted and has shaken the faith in this team's future. There are only two conclusions why this decision was reached, and they're both about money. They couldn't resist unloading the 2_1/2 years left on Penny Hardaway's Hindenburg contract; and Jerry Colangelo couldn't handle paying up to $10 million in luxury taxes for a season that is circling the drain. But for father Colangelo, this sets a land speed record for quitting on a season. Didn't one of his teams make the playoffs after a 0-13 start? Right. In 1997, which seems like five rebuilding efforts ago. This instantly turned all of our professional teams into one giant rebuilding project, and the timing is absolutely bizarre. Marbury had rounded off his rough edges and was beginning to deeply resonate with the fans. He was starting to seem like equal value for Jason Kidd, only younger and far more entertaining. He was also the only one outside of Amare Stoudemire with enough fortitude to perform in the fourth quarter. Apparently, the Colangelos felt this way, too. They not only gave Marbury a four-year contract extension worth up to $80 million in October, they planned the announcement for the day the Nets were in town for a basketball game. As in, "Take that, Jason." That was also the day father Colangelo gushed over Marbury's development by saying, "It's a belief on our part that he will play a very significant role in helping us achieve our mutual dream, which is winning an NBA championship." To toss it away now, when the return of Stoudemire and Zarko Cabarkapa would've still given this team a shot at the No. 8 spot in the West, tells you about the gloomy financial picture at America West Arena. Yes, the team has gone flat and the buzz never materialized from last year's postseason run. Neither did the walk-up customers that make a dinner of hot dogs and beer. Still, the Suns won't give their fans a chance to grow with their teams or their players, and before Monday's trade, the Suns had uniformed a staggering 78 players in eight years. With that kind of revolving door, you wonder whether the younger Colangelo is getting paid by the trade. The father's son has shown a deft touch in recent years. He could've been GM of the year in 2002-03. His recent drafts have been spectacular. But this? Trading a 27-year-old superstar on the rise when he could've been a foundation piece for that long-awaited championship? This rivals the peddling of Curt Schilling for most lopsided acquisition of the year - and both were authorized by the same owner. I know. Maciej Lampe is going to be a good player. Milos Vujanic is one of the best point guards in Europe, so good that he blew off the Knicks to stay in Europe this season. And with a potential $10 million in cap room next season, the Suns can sign Kobe Bryant, because I'm sure he'll leave Hollywood for Phoenix and a $5 million pay cut. Of course, the Suns also recovered Antonio McDyess, who started this mad carousel in the first place. When McDyess turned his back on the Suns a few years back, it set into motion a chain of events that made Tom Gugliotta the highest-paid chair-sitter in history. Ever since, the Suns have been like a dog chasing its tail. And this trade sounded painfully familiar. Woof. Woof. ### http://eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=15367 Here we go again, Colangelos change direction By Scott Bordow, Tribune Columnist Last October, Suns chairman Jerry Colangelo stood at a podium and proudly announced a $104.9 million contract extension for point guard Stephon Marbury. "Who do you want to go to war with?” Colangelo said. “Stephon Marbury is the guy I want next to me in the foxhole, in the trench in a time of war." Apparently, peace has been declared. Pardon me for asking, but wasn't it just yesterday the Suns were bragging about their Big Three of Marbury, Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire? They were the future, and once the powers-that-be in the Western Conference sprouted gray hair, the Suns were poised to take over. Of course, it's tough to see a plan through when those doing the planning have the patience of a 4-year-old. Since the Suns acquired Jason Kidd in December of 1996, they have made 18 deals involving 59 players. During that time, they've won one playoff series. A coincidence? Only if your name is Bryan Colangelo, who seems intent on proving that the acorn can fall far from the tree. The latest panic attack came Monday, when the Suns packed Marbury and Penny Hardaway off to the New York Knicks for Charlie Ward, Howard Eisley, knee-surgery patient Antonio McDyess — remember him? — big man Maciej Lampe, Yugoslavian point guard Milos Vujanic, two first-round draft picks and cash. In short, the Suns traded their best player and Hardaway's lavish deal to save $115 million in contracts. “This was not a talent-for-talent deal,” said Jerry Colangelo, now the clubhouse leader for the no-duh comment of the year. ‘‘We didn’t have flexibility under the cap, and we were hamstrung by some contracts.” You mean, like the $105 million you gave Marbury FOUR MONTHS AGO! The deal might have improved the Suns' bottom line, but for fans tired of the franchise's constant juggling, it's the equivalent of a bowling ball dropped on a toe. Oh, and how does that Kidd-for-Marbury trade look now? “This move stabilizes our franchise, creating bright prospects for the future of our basketball team,” Bryan Colangelo said. Of course, the future in Suns-time is two months. Last year, the Marbury-Marion-Stoudemire triumvirate led the Suns to a 44-38 record and a surprising playoff berth. The Colangelos took great satisfaction in being able to rebuild the team without hitting bottom. The years ahead were filled with promise. Now they blow it up? Yes, Phoenix has done a swan dive into an empty pool this season. But look at what it's been through: the loss of Bo Outlaw, injuries to Stoudemire and rookie Zarko Cabarkapa, the firing of coach Frank Johnson. (Gee, you think Johnson may have been a convenient scapegoat)? A front office with more brains than bluster takes a deep breath and hits the pause button. Bryan Colangelo, though, is a rotisserie GM. Don't like the team today? Change it. Don't like the team tomorrow? Change it again. How are the Suns ever going to move forward if Colangelo panics every time there's a bump in the road? “The bottom line is this is a bold move, but a necessary one for our development and success,” Jerry Colangelo said. Question: When does the development end? The Suns' spin is that the deal will allow them to be a player in next summer's free agent market. The first prize: Kobe Bryant. If Phoenix signs Bryant, the Colangelos will be applauded for their bold move. But there's no guarantee that will happen. First, Bryant would have to take a pay cut to play for the Suns — he's making $14 million; Phoenix will have no more than $8 million in salary cap space — and every team in the league with money in its pocket will pursue him. Second, what if Bryant is in jail? The Chicago Bulls are a cautionary tale. They stripped down to bare bones a few years ago in an effort to sign free agent Tracy McGrady. McGrady went to Orlando, and the Bulls have been the punch line to a bad joke since. Some NBA observers like what the Suns have done, raving about the potential of Lampe, Vujanic and the first-round draft picks. They're assuming, of course, Phoenix will keep a group of core players together longer than the latest Lord of the Rings saga. We know better. By the way, my family is thinking about buying a dog. If the dog chases its tail, I know what I'm going to name it: Colangelo. ### Phoenix's plan: hit rock bottom, then rebuild By Mike Tulumello, Tribune Ever since the mid-1990s, when the Suns traded fading superstar Charles Barkley and Kevin Johnson was taking retirement, the team has been scrambling to find talent. The goal was to stay a contender, or — at worst — field entertaining, competitive teams without hitting the NBA's netherworld, the hellish level inhabited by the Clippers, Warriors, Bulls, Wizards and the like. For quite a while it worked. But Monday's big money-saving Stephon Marbury trade seems to confirm that the Suns finally will have to hit rock bottom, then start rebuilding. This can be a long process. Ask the Bulls, who are still floundering five years after Michael Jordan left. The Suns hope they can follow the pattern of the Nuggets, who shipped out their high-priced players and bottomed out at 17 wins. With shrewd offseason moves, they could make it all the way to the playoffs this season in the ever-tough West. Here are the key moves since the KJ-Barkley era that have contributed to the Suns' present state. - The big December 1996 trade for Jason Kidd, in which they gave up Sam Cassell and the rising Michael Finley, got the Suns off to a fine start. Kidd was a consistent All-NBA selection, set a tone of unselfishness and led the team to 50-win seasons. But the Suns usually didn't go far in the playoffs. Kidd was supposed to team with the high-flying Antonio McDyess to lead the Suns into the future. But in 1998, McDyess fled to Denver as a free agent. - With much of the money they would have spent on McDyess, the Suns acquired big-money players Luc Longley and Tom Gugliotta. Later, in a deal with Orlando, they gave a seven-year, $86 million contract to another high-profile player: Penny Hardaway. - None of these moves worked out. Kidd gave the Suns enough to keep getting to the playoffs, but the heavy contracts put the Suns in a straitjacket in making the necessary moves to get to a title-contending level. - The Suns then tried to rebuild on the fly in a huge move designed to make them younger and more exciting. The trade of Kidd for Marbury in the summer of 2001 and the giveaway of forward Clifford Robinson sent the Suns skidding. - The trade of veterans Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk for rookie Joe Johnson in February 2002 signaled the Suns were giving up on that season. Their streak of making the playoffs 13 straight years ended. - A move at the start of that season, however, worked well in the long run. They acquired Bo Outlaw and a first-round draft pick that they used to choose Amare Stoudemire in the 2002 draft. Stoudemire was a hit right out of high school, becoming the Rookie of the Year. With Stoudemire, Marbury and Shawn Marion leading the way, the Suns made a surprise run to the playoffs last spring. - Then, just before this season started, the Suns made a money-saving trade, giving Outlaw away to the Grizzlies. From the start of the exhibition season, the team seemed out of sync. Then in early December, Stoudemire suffered a serious ankle injury, the team slid even further, and the Suns fired coach Frank Johnson. At the news conference announcing the firing, Suns chairman Jerry Colangelo pointed out that many people felt the Suns "overachieved." Said Colangelo, "I don't buy that." But based on Monday's trade, he apparently has changed his mind. With injuries and inconsistent play, "This team wasn't going anywhere," he said. In the recent past, "We tried to put on Band-Aids." Now, with this dramatic change, "We have a chance to do exciting things. We're looking forward to it." ###
Marbury seems thrilled to be in NY. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1701716 Trade fulfills dream to call MSG home CLEVELAND -- Stephon Marbury was overjoyed to be with his New York Knicks' teammates, even if he wasn't able to take part in a shootaround before Tuesday night's game against the Cavaliers. "It's so overwhelming, it's not even real," Marbury said in his first comments since being traded from the Phoenix Suns to the Knicks as part of an eight-player deal Monday. Marbury and newly acquired Penny Hardaway did not participate in the shootaround because the players traded to Phoenix had not taken physical exams. Marbury and Hardaway will both be game-time decisions for the Cleveland game. Marbury, from Brooklyn, N.Y., said the trade fulfills his lifelong dream to play at Madison Square Garden. "It's the best opportunity for the Knicks and it's the best opportunity for myself," Marbury said. "They want championships and they want them now ... and I want that more than anything." The Suns sent Marbury, Hardaway and Cezary Trebanski to the Knicks for Antonio McDyess, Howard Eisley, Charlie Ward, Maciej Lampe, the rights to Milos Vujanic and two first-round draft picks. Marbury said having Knicks president Isiah Thomas, a player he idolized, bring him back home made the deal even better. "I'm saying 'thank you' to him and he's saying 'thank you' to me," Marbury said. "It's a great situation."
Let's put it this way, Marbury is the same age but better than Francis. How would we feel if we traded SF and MoT for Antonio McDyess, Howard Eisley, Charlie Ward, Maciej Lampe, the rights to Milos Vujanic, two likely two MID to LATE 1st round draft picks and cash???? (NY will probably be the 7th seed in the east for 04 and the other 1st round is conditional) Personally, I'd be pissed. Marion is a very nice player when he doesn't have to lead, Stoudamire has a nice future as an offensively limited but otherwise gifted 4. Everything else for the Suns is a big question mark. Can their season ticket holders ask for a refund?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=aldridge_david&id=1701518 And that's just the business end. Name me, if you can, a better backcourt than Steph and Allan Houston. Don Chaney has despaired of ever finding a penetrating point who can get his team into the penalty early and find Houston and Keith Van Horn out on the perimeter. Now, the Knicks are a factor in the East. A big factor. Chaney will now get a chance to show what he can do with a real live NBA roster. Thomas lives for guard quality, which he now has with Marbury, Houston, Moochie Norris, Shandon Anderson and Penny Hardaway. Do not forget Penny, whom I believe still has a lot of tread on his tires. You can also forget about Kurt Thomas going anywhere; he will be re-signed to an extension very soon, with rookie Mike Sweetney stepping in as his backup at the four. Suddenly, the Knicks have a depth chart that makes sense. Good article... I just think it's funny how he lumps Moochie in the category of "guard quality." Deuce already caught Chad Ford saying that Moochie was one of the better backups in the league. Hilarious! Everyone and their dog living in Houston knows Moochie was crap.
Marbury and the Knicks getting blown out by the Cavs right now. Interestingly, Moochie has six assists, one turnover, and one steal in 12 minutes. Also shooting 1-5 though. Shanderson's also 6-8 for 15 points. The two of them, plus Othella makes three former Rockets playing in the Knicks rotation tonight.
and if we pick up ward, we will actually have more than 3 high profile knicks on our team, well except weatherspoon
One bizarre bit of info that everyone overlooked about this trade: What were the odds that the only two Polish players in the NBA (Trybanski and Lampe) would be traded for each other?
