1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Are the Rockets too dependant on the Refs?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Air Langhi, May 29, 2018.

  1. NateNate

    NateNate Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,387
    Likes Received:
    531
    I’m asking him to change his approach on drives not to change his game entirely. You can wait for the league to magically adjust and start calling Harden differently in the playoffs or you can wait for Harden to adjust. See which happens first. Maybe neither?

    You just can’t ref bait in the playoffs man. I understand a foul is a foul and should be called, but if he went in with intentions of scoring and not flailing his arms after contact (as the ball then goes into the air and out of bounce) then the calls will come. He gets his share obviously and I think the dude gets fouled so much the refs don’t wanna call it every time (righ or wrong). I seen a stat on twitter where it basically showed a decrease in free throws at basically the same rate for Harden, Curry, and Lebron from the regular season to the playoffs. The difference? Lebron tries to work through contact and Curry tries to work around it, both with intentions of scoring. All I’m asking is him to take the contact and not give up on the drive by flailing and throwing the ball away at the feel of a foul. I was sick with the calls just as much as you probably were but F that man be a dawg and go get it..
     
    bmelo likes this.
  2. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,035
    Likes Received:
    23,294
    Consider for a few seconds that the Ref aren't bias for / against any team.. but are for certain style of play.

    It's not that we aren't too dependent, but that we don't take full advantage. If certain type of moving screen (falling down is a pattern with the GSW players) is allowed, why wouldn't we copy and use the same? Maybe because we don't have the personnel to take advantage of it...

    Morey should have ref, playoff ref as part of this equations on what players would benefit the rockets...

    Coach should implement plays to maximize the reffing advantages.

    Coach should discourage plays minimize the reffing advantages.
     
  3. Sidarma

    Sidarma Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,946
    Likes Received:
    1,142
    Like not going 0-27 from deep :(:oops:
     
  4. bmelo

    bmelo Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    3,933
    Likes Received:
    4,645
    It's nice to have tricks in the bag but when you rely on them it can bite you back ;) Harden's game is too predictable without whistles on drives. The biggest thing is he don't score easy ones off the ball/backcuts/nearly nothing on fastbreaks. It's easy to get going that way and he just doesnt utilize it
     
  5. MattM

    MattM Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    646
    Likes Received:
    24
    Yes absolutely, Warriors lose game 7 if refs call a fair game. Scott Foster purposely fell for all their flops, purposely allowed them to foul and get away with it on Harden threes, purposely turned a blind eye to Zaza’s bench three point defense, purposely whistled violations on Rox where there wasn’t one, etc. Foster’s BFF Tim Donaghy surely was proud and probably made a lot of money from the outcome.

    All teams are dependent on the officials to call a fair game. It’s a basic expectation that everyone has for the officials to do their job, and the Rockets were totally screwed in game 7 by the worst referee in the game today -a referee that shouldn’t even have this job by virtue of his close association with Donaghy.

    A friend of mine worked at Game Stop a long time ago when he was a teenager, he was fired along with the rest of the staff at the store because there was a manager who was stealing. My friend truthfully had zero l knowledge of what was going on but was fired any way. And on one hand you understand why he was fired since the store needed a fresh start.

    Clearly the NBA allowed this lowlife, Scott Foster, to remain a ref despite him ostensibly knowing what Donaghy was doing. Scott Foster is a shame and a flat out embarrassment to basketball and should be banned from the game similarly to his best buddy Donaghy.
     
  6. Blurr#7

    Blurr#7 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2007
    Messages:
    5,277
    Likes Received:
    3,455
    Well they are a jump shooting team. That and they have 3 facets that could go off for 50 any night.
     
  7. bmelo

    bmelo Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    3,933
    Likes Received:
    4,645
    Not only that. If you take away their shooting spots they have couple of guys that can drive and on top of that they can send Durant to highpost iso to shoo midrange over anybody. The only thing they lack is low-post center scoring other than that it's complete offensive package
     
    Blurr#7 likes this.
  8. Wylo

    Wylo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    874
    Likes Received:
    1,032
    In other words, Harden is not the best shot maker and scorer when you take away his free throws. Hoped his stepback threes would develop into one of those unstoppable moves, but it did not. And I'm glad someone finally brought up Harden's highly predictable, telegraphed passes. His assist numbers plummeted in the playoffs, and it turns out Harden's passing ability was also somewhat exaggerated.

    Really like the analogy of Harden's game with that of exploiting tax law. It's just not a sustainable model for long term success.
     
    studogg likes this.
  9. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    20,786
    Likes Received:
    17,333
    Even when the refs swallow the whistle Harden still scores pretty efficiently on 2 pointers. It's the fact that he can miss 10 3's a game that kills his overall effectiveness. this is true for the whole team too, we have shot horribly this series from the 3.
     
    Reeko likes this.
  10. juanm34

    juanm34 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    6,770
    Likes Received:
    7,927
    The organization must stand up to these tyrants or suffer under their rule.
     
  11. Reeko

    Reeko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    52,229
    Likes Received:
    143,653
    yeah, he was 10-16 from 2 in game 7 as opposed to 2-13 from 3

    overall in the playoffs he shot 50% on twos including 67% from 0-3 ft, but just 30% on threes taking 10 of them a game...50% on twos is very impressive considering he played against Utah with Gobert and GS with the refs
     
    Blurr#7 likes this.
  12. hakeemthagreat

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    6,323
    Likes Received:
    4,344
    Dependent on the refs to do their jobs? Which is to follow the rulebook accordingly. If at anytime the refs stray from the rulebook then they should be held accountable. So is this really about the Rockets? Or the refs taking away 16+ points in a game we lost by 7?
     
    Blurr#7 likes this.
  13. hakeemthagreat

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    6,323
    Likes Received:
    4,344
    Those are just code word for moving screens. You can't say the Rockets are dependent on the refs, but leave out the fact Golden State benefits from a bunch of non calls. They've been known for moving screens since the Bogut days. Their is video proof of these screens. They depend on the refs as much as we do
     
  14. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,688
    Likes Received:
    44,892
    specifically talking about the integrity of the game, something is obviously flawed and wrong. and it isn't harden's approach to the game.
     
  15. harold bingo

    harold bingo Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2017
    Messages:
    4,340
    Likes Received:
    12,499
    Sorry but this is just not true at all. Tons of rockets haters whined about the dream shake being a travel. Maybe you didn't notice because social media wasn't around back then, but I remember Jazz fans especially saying that he travels on every one of his moves and he only scores because he gets to travel. It was very similar to how people treat Harden today.
     
    kjayp likes this.
  16. rocketman84

    rocketman84 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,565
    Likes Received:
    2,524
    The rockets are too dependent on a fair playing field
     
    napalm06 likes this.
  17. kjayp

    kjayp Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    8,950
    Likes Received:
    7,758
    You play for the bucket - not the whistle.
    If you're gonna relinquish possessions in pursuit of a foul call - you get what you get... personally, I wouldnt put my future in these corrupt zebras hands...

    Key point is if you are trying to score - and get fouled - its reasonable to have the expectation of getting the call,,,
    but if an offensive player initiates contact and heaves up a bad shot just to get a foul call - thats trying to take a shortcut to scoring... if your game plan is to play for the foul - dont cry when it doesnt work out - you're the one who decided your reliance on getting the call was a better option than actually trying to score legit...
     
  18. DVauthrin

    DVauthrin Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 1999
    Messages:
    9,623
    Likes Received:
    7,929
    Sam, the Rockets were up 56-47 at the time. If the play is called correctly, the lead could’ve been 13. (It ended up being 11 as the Rockets scored two points on the possession). But I completely agree that it was a momentum changing play.
     
  19. Omron

    Omron Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    10
    I listen to a lot of the major sports broadcasts and this narrative of James Harden being a flopper and whose game is predicated on cheap whistles is a pretty consistent one. Not saying there could have been more calls that should have gone Rockets' way but to deny that Harden's game gets significantly impacted in the playoffs where defense is tighter and refs swallow their whistles is just living in denial. Lebron in my opinion is the recipient of the highest amount of fouls not called just because he's so big and strong but he adjusts. Harden on the other hand, can do only a few things well and a big part of that needs the help of the referees. The problem is Harden is like the boy who cried wolf. Every time he goes up for a shot he puts in extra motions to look like he got fouled. After the umpteenth time he does that, you put doubt in the referees' minds whether it was a legit foul or just extra motions.
     
    #59 Omron, May 30, 2018
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
    studogg likes this.
  20. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Messages:
    26,911
    Likes Received:
    30,514
    You can't score if you can be wrist-chopped and/or pushed-off-balance on every shot with no repercussions.

    That's all there is to it.

    I know there's this general idea that Harden plays for the whistle and that's often true. But speaking strictly about the reason we lost the Warriors series, it wasn't Harden's fault that calls that were making Chris Webber and Reggie Miller lose their minds weren't being called.
     

Share This Page