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Democrats wanna address gun control, address Chicago

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by pgabriel, Mar 2, 2018.

  1. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    The title has two points.

    First America is still very violent. People want guns for protection not just hunting

    Secondly Chicago has strict gun laws and is a very violent city
     
  2. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member
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    Baby steps.

    Step 1. Give illegals an ID card

    Step 2. ????
     
  3. mtbrays

    mtbrays Contributing Member
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    How are people in Chicago who use guns to commit crimes purchasing them? Are they still buying them in town, despite the strong gun laws, or are they buying them outside of the city (or state) and bringing them into Chicago?

    An example: Oklahoma caps the ABV of beer sold outside of liquor stores at 4%. When Texas-based friends of mine worked in the oil fields out there, the Oklahoma hands always told them to bring back some of that "strong Texas beer" (ABV <= 15.5%) with them when they returned to the field. It was easy to undermine Oklahoma's laws because of a neighboring state's more lax approach to beer and the roads that connected them. The patchwork effect of state legislation allowed the hands to easily drink higher ABV beer despite Oklahoma's efforts to make it harder. It seems like Chicago's efforts to regulate the sale and ownership of firearms is just as easily undermined by the legislative context in which it exists.

    By the same measure, you must think that Australia's strict post-1990s gun laws are working in spite of themselves since you believe legislation has no effect.
     
    #3 mtbrays, Mar 2, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  4. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. So, I'll make two statements. People think they are protecting themselves by hurting other people. Second, it is a pretty short drive from strict Chicago proper and lax Indiana. You can even ride the Metra.
     
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  5. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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  6. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    The point is the NRA talking point about Chicago's gun laws that simply is not true.
     
  7. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    What about Washington DC


    Edit: looks like Chicago did have the toughest gun laws till a decade ago
     
    #7 pgabriel, Mar 2, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  8. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    What about Hillary and her email servers??

    last legs pbag
     
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  9. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    The point is Democrats are tone deaf about people's concerns about crime.
    Stricter gun look laws really do affect law abiding citizens more than criminals

    There are mass shootings and there is every day crime. The anti gun laws people are more concerned about every day crime and if you want to move on legislation you have to address their concerns
     
  10. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Move that goal post since Chicago doesn't fit your narrative. For every "strict" gun law city with increasing violence, there is a "strict" gun law city with decreasing violence. For every "loose" gun law city with decreasing violence, there is a "loose" gun law city with increasing violence.

    Clearly no one federal law or combination of laws will fix the problem. What folks seemingly fail to realize it is not an all or nothing situation. Is there really something wrong (for example) with raising the minimum age to 21 across the board to purchase a firearm? Clearly that one law would not fix the problem. It will take many things, but just because one thing or a handful of things aren't a 100% fix, there is no reason to not investigate them.
     
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  11. Buck Turgidson

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    What about Honduras, bobrek?
     
  12. Camarograna2

    Camarograna2 Contributing Member

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    As many have pointed out going after gun control is about stepping stone. You have to look at all data points when identifying which gun reforms make sense and prevent deaths. To go after what can solve Chicago you have to go after illegal sales, legal sales because no nationwide standard, stolen guns, technology to prevent a gun from being usable if stolen (yes i know very futuristic). What we should focus immediately is to do something about how mentally ill can purchase guns and set up panels to examine data that can guide them to come up with reforms that can prevent innocent deaths as much as possible
     
  13. Camarograna2

    Camarograna2 Contributing Member

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    exactly!
     
  14. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    On goal post moving

    The point is addressing people's concerns about crime

    I don't have a problem admitting I was wrong about Chicago. It doesn't change my overall point

    You hear people joke about hunting and assault rifles but the people who don't want stricter gun laws aren't just thinking about hunting.

    Gun control laws really do seem to people to hurt law abiding citizens and that's the point
     
  15. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Boring. If you want to address Chicago, start with poverty and education, not guns.
     
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  16. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Why did you use Chicago to begin with?

    There are and always will be laws that "hurt" law abiding citizens.
     
  17. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    I'm fully armed with assault weapons every time I venture into Honduras. Never had a problem.
     
  18. TheRealist137

    TheRealist137 Member

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    Fact of the matter is if gun supply were restricted, people in Chicago would have less guns, therefore there'd be less violence. Can't rob a store with a knife as easily as you could with a gun.
     
  19. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    You can drive 30 miles and get a gun. Chicago isn't the best example to use for gun control.

    https://www.npr.org/2017/10/05/555580598/fact-check-is-chicago-proof-that-gun-laws-don-t-work

     
    #19 Air Langhi, Mar 2, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  20. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Nothing is a good example. Just because a city may fail in law enforcement even though they have strict gun laws, doesn't mean other or all cities will fail. It is a ridiculous argument. "Oh no...it doesn't work in <insert city here> therefore it will never work". (note that the reverse argument is true as well)

    The problem exists due to many circumstances. Addressing different pieces to improve the whole is a good place to start.
     

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