Very True. I don't care if the Rox play ball like the 1950's Minnesota Lakers as long as they win. On the subject of Elie I've been thinking what the Rox need is someone like Elie. A tough guy who'll make a key statement shot when the game is on the line and energize the rest of the team. The Rox should've signed Elie to be a player and not an assistant in the off season to show the younger guys a thing or two about heart.
I think Mark Jackson may be out of commission even though he says he can play. Rod Strickland who is a perennial headcase got signed by the Magic just a few days ago. He was picked over Mark Jackson to be a backup point guard. The fact that Mark Jackson hasn't been picked up yet probably means he's done as an NBA player.
I wonder if Jeff Van Gundy's relationship with his former players is still good. I know he left basically right near the beginning of the 2001 season. I didn't hear him talk bad about his former players at all. This is a good article about him leaving the Knicks. http://slate.msn.com/id/2059596/ Here's another one: http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2001/1208/1292090.html I think the Knick players respected him a lot. I think Jeff Van Gundy needs a piece of the old to make his new team better.
It's a myth that a team needs a real PG. Let's look at the list of starting PGs who were on title winning teams since 91. 91- Paxson/Armstrong 92- Same 93- Same 94- Cassell/Smith 95- Same 96- Ron Harper 97- Same 98- Same 99- Antonio Daniels/Avery Johnson 00- Ron Harper 01- Ron Harper/Tyrone Lue/Fisher 02- Fisher/Lue (I think Harper retired by then) 03- Jesus Parker None of those guys listed above are close to HOF material. What it means is that you just need a role player at PG. Ron Harper was nothing close to a "real" PG, but was useful on the Bulls because Phil liked having long-armed defenders against opposing PGs. I think these days, what a PG needs to be able to do is just hold their own defensively, as well as being able to hit open shots created by the star player. Charlie Ward and Eisley would not help us that much. PG is considered the Knicks greatest weakness, so why would we trade for them!? The only franchise PG who I think much of is Gary Payton, because of how clutch he is, and how he has no real weakness. Problem is that I don't know what PG would be a good fit for the Rockets. I guess one who can actually lead a fast break. When your offense sucks, fastbreaks are your best friend. Unfortunately, Francis succesfully runs 1 out of 5 fastbreaks. Moreover, when Francis goes to the hole, the shot he creates for himself or others is often very difficult, even if it's only 5 ft away. Francis takes a lot of off-balanced reverse layups that only Kobe Bryant or hte like can convert. He also gives guys like Cato the ball when they are "open" from like 7 ft away. What the hell is Cato supposed to do with a shot from 7 ft away? Shoot a jumper? Somehow manage to dribble the ball that far to the goal?
If a "REAL" point guard is synonymous with "Smart, Intelligent" point guard then...heck yeah we need a real point guard!!!
This is absolutely crazy. Charlie Ward: No one's high on him. Just because he doesn't score 20ppg doesn't mean he's not a good PG. You think Steve Francis is a good PG? That's absolutely silly. Charlie Ward is a betetr POINT GUARD than Francis, however, Francis is by far the superior overall player. If you wanted one of them to run a play for Yao Ming, Charlie Ward would be the better option. You guys think REAL PG means DAMN GOOD PG. Yaopao, you just made yourself look real smart by putting up that list. Paxson, Armstrong, Harper, Cassell, Daniels, Avery, Parker, Fisher and Lue ALL average better assist/to numbers than Francis. They make Francis asst/to number laughable. Every single one of those teams had a REAL PG, some even despite having another dominating G on the team. You know what your list did show though? That no team in the past 12 years has needed a PG who's a major scorer in the offense. After reading this thread, the commetns, the opinions, and the history, I'm almost convinced that we should trade Steve Francis for a similarly dominating player at another position along with a smart PG. Rasheed Wallace, Jeff McInnis, and Damon Stoudamire for Steve Francis, Moochie Norris, Mo Taylor, part of the trade exception.
Check out this lil blurp in the Chronicle. Seems JVG just pretty much dismissed Ward and Tinsley as being an ideal fit at PG on this team: Making a point There's a point guard who, though a willing passer, has enough shooting talent to fit his team's needs. His coach likes to say that he has learned not to expect his point guard to be John Stockton but has asked him to distribute the ball a bit more lately. And as always, the point guard, for all his offensive skills, must begin the offense inside. Steve Francis can relate. The Spurs still need Tony Parker to be among their most dependable scorers. But in the four games (going into Saturday's) since Gregg Popovich said Parker should set up teammates more, Parker had 39 assists. "I don't want him to be (John) Stockton because we need him to score," Popovich said. "But I'd like for him to involve other people. Hopefully, as he matures he'll understand the value of it. He has the ability to do it because if he didn't have the ability to pass or find people, I'd say be (selfish) and shoot it all the time. "If he penetrates and there's a wide-open shot, that's one thing," Popovich said. "But if he goes in and there's two big guys standing there, I'm going to let him know that's not good basketball." The Rockets ask roughly the same things from Francis. But Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy said that point guards have to be able to shoot because of the rules that allow zones. "You can't put out non-shooters," Van Gundy said. "Then you're too easy to guard. You're playing four on five. You got to have guys who know when to shoot, and when to pass, know when to drive and know when to shoot." ----------------- Maybe JVG is onto something. Maybe his reasoning is why poor shooting PGs, like Ward and Tinsley, can't get off the bench, or hold onto a starting job, despite having only average PGs in front of them.
Let's first analyze the Bulls, Spurs, and Lakers with Shaq. All three of them had dominant players. Bulls just had to give it to MJ. Spurs have got Mr. Fundamental. Shaq is Shaq. Yao is no dominant force. Please do not bring that up. Teams with no dominant force must be able to play team ball to win in today's game. When I say team ball, I look at the Kings or the Jazz. Charlie Ward got the Knicks to the Finals when Van Gundy was coaching them. Steve Francis is a shooting guard. He wasn't even a point guard in Maryland. Forcing him to be a point guard in the NBA has been one of the worst experiments in Rockets history. Forcing a shooting guard to be a point guard is like forcing a carpenter to do electrical work.
Comparing Rockets with the Spurs is like comparing apples to oranges. Spurs have Duncan. Rockets have no Duncan. Case closed. Rockets need a passing point guard hopefully with a decent outside shot. He doesn't need to be Mark Price or Steve Kerr.
By no means am I Francis fan. I think he's overrated in every aspect of the game. However, I don't think a PG has THAT much value. After SF, PG is the 2nd most "useless" position. Basically, I just want a PG who can run the break effectively, and someone who knows his teammates better. By that I mean someone who knows when and where to give the teammate the ball. Anytime Cato gets the ball when he's "open" from 20 ft away, is not a good pass. If I had an ideal PG who isn't a superstar, then I guess it would be Darrell Armstrong from a few years ago.
lol so basically take away the teams that have won in RECENT history??? like the last 13 yrs?? Isiah thomas was closer to steve than to Stockton or Kidd The old lakers had Majic . . 6'9 passing FREAK!! Celtic has. .. who . . Danny Ainge, Dennis Johnson??? Nate Archibald was more steve than stockton what i remember hhhhmmmmm So beyond Magic [ a FREAK in a good way] when was the last TRUE point guard lead anyone anywhere oh yea . . . Magic had this tall guy that was a scoring machine name KAREEM!!!! Rocket River pul lease screw the true point guard crap how many rings stockton and Kidd got???????????
TAKE A FRICKIN LOOK AT THAT KNICKS TEAM and retraxct that bull**** Knicks had EWING, Spreewell, Houston is there ANYONE ON THIS TEAM WITH FRANCIS ON THE LEVEL OF ANY OF THEM Yao is not Ewing .. .YET!! [i think he will be better but Ewing i hate but respect] Mobley is NO SPREE and even the Polish Rifle does not shoot as well as houston I think LArry johnson was there too . . pre back problems or at least when they were managable ANY POWERFOWARD ON THIS TEAM COMPARIABLE SOFT *SS MO T or HANDS OF STONE CATO???? Bash steve but the Knicks of that year were NOT PUNKS! Rocket River
Are we referring to the same team? Ewing got his wrist broken that year. That's the team that went from the 8th seed to the Finals. Please take a look at this article about the 1st game of the Finals. That roster had garbage on it. Allan Houston and Sprewell were the only good players. http://www.canoe.ca/NBAPlayoffs99/jun16_ny_sa.html What I'm trying to say is that Charlie Ward was the point guard on a team that Van Gundy coached to the Finals. There's gotta be some credit for being in that position even though they got killed by the Spurs.
I want people to understand what I'm trying to say. Only teams with absolute monsters can get by without having a passing point guard that gets everybody involved. Aside from the Lakers and the Spurs, every team doesn't have the option of getting almost automatic scoring from a Shaq or Duncan. This is the salary cap era. Teams just can't get every single star in the league to be on the team. You must make do with you have. How can a team play to its full potential without a passing point guard? Look at any great college team. You'll see my point. Parity has created this situation.
http://www.nba.com/knicks/history/new_knicks_history.html#24 Ewing went down in the finals a CONTROVESIAL 4 PT PLAY [the wrist was in '98] Camby was good then too . . camby IS good just injury prone Rocket River I get ya point but folx make JVG finals appearence more miraculous than it reallt was
