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The extra pass...

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by beyao, Dec 14, 2003.

  1. beyao

    beyao Member

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    ... is, I think we all agree, the key to solving our offensive woes, or at least one of them. When watching the Spurs tonight, and almost every other good team in the league, you see crisp passing on the perimeter until someone ends up with a good, open look; today we even saw some overpassing by the Spurs. But this is usually a good thing, as it catches the defense on its heels and puts the offense into an unpredictable attack mode.
    I've watched every Rox game this season and honestly cannot recall ONE time in which we executed this way. Whenever the pass SHOULD be made, we have someone holding the ball and then going ISO or else passing only after all the defenders are back in the ready positions. Essentially, we are making the defenders' jobs way too easy for them. Our field goal % has been anemic not because we don't have quality shooters, but because the defense is right up there contesting all of our shots. Guys like Pike, Mobes and Jackson would feast if we could ever pass around the horn like basically every other team does.

    So the question is, "why don't we ever make the EXTRA pass?" Is it simply a matter of selfishness? Personally, I don't think that can explain it all, as Francis has shown a willingness to defer to his teammates more and more. Is it that old habits die hard? I'd like to hear other opinions...
     
  2. Deepsouth

    Deepsouth Member

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    All star game is coming.
     
  3. beyao

    beyao Member

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    alrighty then...
     
  4. Shooter1583

    Shooter1583 Member

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    I agree, only problem is, we dont have any shooters in our starting lineup...so why would Steve make the extra pass to, say, Jim Jackson for a 3? Or Cato for a postup opportunity? Until we get more consistent shooters (even Piatkowski is off from 3), then the players likely see no reason to pass up shots...
     
  5. beyao

    beyao Member

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    True, but I'm not even pinpointing Steve on this. It seems nobody on this team ever makes the extra pass. I think holding the ball for too long is infectious or something. I get so frustrateed because our offense is never "one step ahead" in terms of putting the D on its heels and forcing it to chase the ball.
     
  6. nyquil82

    nyquil82 Member

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    i wish we could the the extra pass but we are a horrible passing team, with bad tossed passes and stone hands catching them. without some serious practice, im afraid more passing will lead to more turnovers :(
     
  7. IROC it

    IROC it Member

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    There's already been too much passing.

    The "extra pass" as you say has been going to the last option poor shooter.

    I remember Horry noy taking open shots in lue of the "extra pass" and just seeing the next guy brick it.

    I've seen similar this season, in what little I've seen.

    Guy open, makes "extra pass" next guy brick / t.o. / swatted.

    Sometimes we don't need to use all the clock in hopes of keeping the oponents score lower. That "all defense all the time" mentality also reduces our trips down the floor.

    I'm more in favor of the "first guy with a clean shot, after one or two passes at the most, then hustle back on defense" game plan.

    The "extra pass" is overrated IMHO.

    He who gets on hot streak needeth not pass the rock.
     
  8. Shooter1583

    Shooter1583 Member

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    I also think our spacing is horrendous...thats why they can collapse on yao so easily, because we have his side of the floor flooded...it should only be the passer and Yao, and everyone else should be making cuts and screening away from the ball on the opposite side of the floor...
     
  9. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Member

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    I think that the extra pass is defintely needed, it's just that people got to learn to set and shoot not to mention pumpfake. And and I don't buy the crap that we don't have the shooters/talent.

    When we won the first championship we see Hakeem passes out of double team to some one and they'd swing it around till some one's open. But look at the players on that team, starting line up, Thorpe, Horry, Maxwell and Kenny. The later 3 are all great set shooters while Thorpe wold be the hustle guy that can get the offense rebound when they missed. You replace Max with Drexler for the 2nd championship. Now you take a look at our team, Steve, Cat and JJ aren't that much worse of shooters than Kenny, Max/Drexler, Horry. And it's not like Cato is that much worse of a offensive rebounder than thorpe and Chucky Freaking brown (another reason why I believe that our PF is the biggest problem for the rox).

    Our guys now, when they are open, they always either take the quick shot or drive. I think they should take a second to set. Also, pump fake on the outside, I rarely see our guys do this. Not saying that they should do it every time but enough to get the defense off guard. And unlike the team of the past, our shooters can actually create somethign themselves if the defender doesn't fall for the fake and the shot clock is low.

    The last thing is that Hakeem gets very deep in the post which helped created spacing for the shooters, Yao MUST learn to do this or everything other players do WILL BE IN VAIN.
     
  10. DavidS

    DavidS Member

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    We have too many players with the one-on-one mentality on the court. No playmakers.

    Francis, Mobley, MoT all want the take their deferener off the dribble. They might not do it as a game plan (because of JVG). But they WANT to do that. And most of the time it seeps through in the form of hesitation and forced shots.
     
  11. Nova

    Nova Member

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    I agree.. no playmakers indeed. However, while Francis sometimes seems to want to take his defender off the dribble, most of the other players don't. Actually, this just popped into my head and could be ludicrous, but maybe they're following JVG's plan to literally. Maybe JVG tells them dump it in, and if dumped out pass around the arc and shoot, or then get it to somebody who might be able to drive and drive that sucker to the hole, usually that being Francis. The Rox seem to be very... uncreative I guess. Very stiff in their playing, for example the pump fakes and such. You don't see them do much of that, you just see them get the ball and automatically shoot. There's no.. I dunno how to say it.. but there's no thinking on the player's part. It seems as if they feel they're not free to try to fake their defender, use the pump fake, things like that. This may be one reason Francis is doing so poorly. Maybe JVG has stifled them a little too much? Pure speculation. :p
     
  12. DavidS

    DavidS Member

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    I think the phrase you are loooking for is: "Inability to adapt to the situation." That can bee seen as a form of "creativity" or lack thereof.

    And this stems directly from the individual.
     
  13. x_trepidation_x

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    I'm still convinced that Francis and Mobley need to be traded. They just don't have the brains and good decision making skills which are needed for this team. In fact, i'll go as far as to say our backcourt is a joke.

    The pont guard is supposed to create easy shot opportunities for other players. Instead it seems that our point guard just seems to make it easy for the defense to defend our team.

    Please..trade these two jokers and get some guys who know how to play team ball.
     
  14. Nova

    Nova Member

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    Close, but not really. I mean that they seem to be more smothered in their ... I guess, using your phrase, 'ability to adapt to the situation'. I think JVG might have a very strict, structured offense, which doesn't really leave the players a whole lotta freedom, which could be good or bad depending on the players on the team. Francis has so far definitely not been one who has adjusted to this.

    And trepidation... I still don't see any reason to get rid of Mobley... Francis has given ample reason so far I'll give you that. Mobley has fit in well and is doing what he should in his role on the team.
     
  15. Charvo

    Charvo Member

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    You underestimate Kenny Smith and Robert Horry. Kenny Smith averaged 40% from behind the arc for this career with the Rockets. Robert Horry was one of the best playoff clutch performers from behind the 3 point line in the Rocket championship years. Kenny Smith, Robert Horry, and Maxwell all hit key 3 pointers for the Rockets in their playoff run. Anyone remember Maxwell hitting that 3 to put the final hammer down on the Knicks in the Finals? Cuttino is a good 3 point shooter, but he is no Kenny Smith or Matt Bullard. Steve's expertise is driving to the bucket. His jump shooting ability is average at best. He got most of his scoring in his early years by driving to the basket, but he's resorted to shooting jumpers this year. Why is that? Does he think he's Larry Bird or something? He's Drexler, and I never remembered Clyde Drexler being an ace marksman. I hope you are kidding about JJ being a good outside shooter.

    Yao is never going to be Hakeem, Shaq, or Duncan. Those are players who don't come along very often. There are so many yearning for the old days of Hakeem posting down low, that they think Yao can become him. I doubt it. There are two players in the league that can dominate at will. They are Shaq and Duncan. Noone else can. Rockets pretending to emulate the Lakers and the Spurs is a joke. Kings aren't emulating the Spurs, but they are still very successful. Peja and Brad Miller are very good, but they are far from the level of Shaq and Duncan. What makes their team successful? Excellent passing. I'd take the Jazz over the Rockets at any neutral site because their offense is dependent on passing since they can't just dump it low to some monster named Hakeem or Shaq. This team needs to dump this garbage offense.
     
  16. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Member

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    But if Yao doesn't become a low post threat, he is just not gonna be good enough. Think about Vlade on the Kings, because of his speed, most of the time, he just sets pick on the high post and become a 7 foot spot up jumper. Brad Miller is playing better because Miller has the speed for a game like that. If your a big man with out speeed, you better be a force downlow. My opionion of Yao is that he definitely has the physical talent to become dominant, either that or he wasn't worth the 2 first round picks and Lamar Odom we would've gotten had we traded him. But I think he will become dominant, I see flashes of this, I hope he can become that player we can count on to bring some more rings to the city.
     
  17. Yetti

    Yetti Member

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    JVG said at the beginning of the season that he wanted the Rockets to stop taking difficult shots as is their want. He wants the ball passed to a player that can take an easy shot.ie an open or uncontested shot if possible. The Rockets arn't doing this. To do this they need the inside outside Game, it takes positioning, spacing, playmaking, crisp passing and open players taking the shot.The Team must go back to fundamentals, at the moment they are playing a chaotic way, giving the impression that they have no Game Plan nor do they care to play as a Team.
     
  18. Yetti

    Yetti Member

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    Exactly and I have said it since the first posting of 'Yao Ming needs to Bulk Up' Yao Ming is not and never will be a banger Power Center. It a waste of time trying to develop something that he isn't.He wont be Hakkem or Shaq but he could be the first ever Yao Ming, if he is ever given the chance to develop.
     

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