Cuttino as a SG is actually better than Steve as a point guard. That's a problem since moving Steve to the SG would push Cuttino to the bench. Cuttino deserves starter minutes with his ability to score being at such a high level this season. Keeping Steve at the PG is going to ultimately be the death of this team because it's like someone trying to keep pushing a square peg in a round hole. The edges get frayed, and the product becomes mediocre. This wouldn't be a big deal if he was making around Cuttino money, but Steve makes 20% of the payroll. Tracy McGrady comes onto the market soon. Having the Rockets actually be able to bid for a premium talent like McGrady would be great. That can't happen with so many idiotic contracts that Rudy and CD signed mediocre players too.
True. He's not trying to be selfish. He just doesn't know any better. So to rephrase your statment, "Steve's problem is not that he does not share it is that he does not share properly...because he doesn't know how to share it properly." No one taught him. And to use Jordan as an example, "Jordan's problem is not that he does not share the ball properly, it that he does not want to share because it hurts the team to do so rather than taking the ball himself." Simplified... When Francis tries to score like Jordan, he hurts the team. He doesn't have the ablitty to score at that rate. When Francis tries to pass like Stockton, he hurts the team. He doesn't have the knowlge to pass at that rate. Wammo!!! On both counts.
Well said!! You might be right. I worry about this. But at least our bench will be solidified with a very good SG. That's an asset. Plus it give Francis more free space to do his SG things.
Now now Sammie...that was uncalled for. I read every one of your posts before deciding that you are a good poster, you could at least do me the same courtesy before labelling me. I am known as a homer. I do NOT want to trade anyone since I have faith that they will come together and play the system like VG demands. The reason for my post you quoted was cause the guy took someone else's post and twisted the words to fit their own agenda..therefore my sarcastic response. btw...welcome back
True to a point. Mobley specializes in that skill. The thing I'm curious about is that we haven't seen Francis play exclusively as a SG. And we don't really have a PG that can make Francis' play (or Mobley) better. At least setup the offense. The other thing I wonder about is Mobley's fragile temperament. I'm not talking about "anger" but "ego" rather. He doesn't have the "ego" that Francis has. It's ok if Mobley has his "big brother" holding his back (like a bodyguard). But if that safety net was gone, Mobley would FREAKOUT! Mobley is not a leader type. He's a very good supporting player. Like JJ. So, SG skill is not enough. I want someone to make Francis's job easier. A PG. A real PG. I want Francis to become our Iverson (not in stats, but temperament). But you can't have that with Moochie. You need a better PG. The PG HAS to be a threat if Francis moves to the 2. I don't care if Francis scores at all in the 1st quater. SG's have a tendency to not be seen, then later score 15 or 17. Moving, cutting, running, slashing...but not "ball handling" or "creating." SG just cause havoc. Francis can cause havoc if he's setup right.
In the 20 games Steve has played thus far, here are his opponent’s stats. It’s almost impossible to take into account whether the opponents starters stats were effected when Moochie comes in, as much as it’s impossible to take into account when the opponents guards matches up against Steve. It’s a moot point. I forgot how to average offensive rebounds, defensive rebounds, assists, steals, turnovers, blocks, and points without getting funky looking decimals. Anyone here can fill in those blanks. Barring some typing errors since I had to do all of this handwritten, this’ll provide the information you’re looking for. S. Francis Average: PLAYER POS MINS FG % 3-P FG % FT % OFF DEF TOT AST ST TO BS PTS S. Francis G 39.1 .400 .288 .789 1.60 4.00 5.60 5.0 1.38 3.10 .57 17.5 821 130-325 21-73 86-109 33 84 117 104 29 78 12 367 Player X Average: PLAYER POS MINS FG % 3-P FG % FT % OFF DEF TOT AST ST TO BS PTS Player X G 33.9 .425 .349 .933 712 100-235 22-63 42-45 16 31 47 124 26 46 2 296 Actual Game Statistics: Game 1: Houston vs. Denver (Home) PLAYER POS MINS FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS A. Miller G 34 6-13 1-3 6-7 0 2 2 3 4 1 3 0 19 S. Francis G 42 6-16 2-3 7-8 0 8 8 2 1 3 3 0 21 Game 2: Houston vs. Memphis (Home) PLAYER POS MINS FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS J.Williams G 22 1-6 1-4 0-0 1 0 1 5 2 1 2 0 3 S. Francis G 44 6-16 0-5 7-7 3 3 6 4 5 3 6 1 19 Game 3: Houston vs. Chicago (Away) PLAYER POS MINS FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS J. Crawford G 37 6-18 3-6 4-4 1 1 2 3 2 0 3 0 19 S. Francis G 27 9-14 1-2 0-0 0 4 4 3 2 2 4 1 19 Game 4: Houston vs. New Jersey (Away) PLAYER POS MINS FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS J. Kidd G 41 6-18 1-4 3-3 3 4 7 9 1 1 4 0 16 S. Francis G 39 6-17 1-4 4-4 0 10 10 6 3 1 5 0 17 Game 5: Houston vs. Orlando (Home) PLAYER POS MINS FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS T. Lue G 38 5-12 1-2 7-7 2 3 5 7 1 1 1 1 18 S. Francis G 44 11-18 3-6 6-8 2 5 7 6 1 2 3 2 31 Game 6: Houston vs. Miami (Home) PLAYER POS MINS FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS D. Wade G 38 4-9 0-1 3-4 0 5 5 5 3 3 3 0 11 S. Francis G 36 5-14 0-4 4-5 1 6 7 7 2 0 3 1 14 Game 7: Houston vs. Dallas (Away) PLAYER POS MINS FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS S. Nash G 35 4-7 1-2 7-8 0 5 5 7 3 0 4 0 16 S. Francis G 37 6-14 0-3 3-3 0 3 3 7 3 2 3 0 15 Game 8: Houston vs. Phoenix (Home) PLAYER POS MINS FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS S. Marbury G 43 11-21 1-4 10-10 1 4 5 6 4 1 3 0 32 S. Francis G 41 9-19 2-6 6-8 0 4 4 1 3 0 1 0 26 Game 9: Houston vs. Toronto (Away) PLAYER POS MINS FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS A. Williams G 18 2-4 0-0 0-0 0 2 2 5 2 1 0 0 4 S. Francis G 50 9-27 0-5 7-7 1 6 7 1 1 2 1 0 25 Game 10: Houston vs. Philadelphia (Away) PLAYER POS MINS FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS E. Snow G 32 3-10 0-0 2-2 0 4 4 5 1 4 1 0 8 S. Francis G 37 3-17 1-5 4-4 2 8 10 6 3 2 6 1 11 Game 11: Houston vs. Golden State (Home) PLAYER POS MINS FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS S. Claxton G 35 4-10 0-1 2-4 1 2 3 8 4 2 3 0 10 S. Francis G 40 9-18 3-3 2-2 1 3 4 5 5 2 2 1 23 Game 12: Houston vs. Portland (Away) PLAYER POS MINS FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS D. Stoudamire G 40 8-13 3-4 4-4 1 4 5 7 1 2 1 0 23 S. Francis G 41 2-9 0-2 0-0 1 6 7 7 3 2 3 0 4 Game 13: Houston vs. Los Angeles Clippers (Away) PLAYER POS MINS FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS K. Dooling G 25 2-7 0-1 0-0 0 1 1 3 2 0 1 0 4 S. Francis G 33 7-10 1-2 4-5 1 3 4 9 5 1 6 2 19 Game 14: Houston vs. Utah (Away) PLAYER POS MINS FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS R. Lopez G 22 4-7 2-3 0-0 0 1 1 5 4 0 3 0 10 S. Francis G 39 5-15 2-4 1-1 4 2 6 3 5 0 8 0 13 Game 15: Houston vs. Sacramento (Away) PLAYER POS MINS FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS M. Bibby G 28 7-10 1-2 3-4 0 4 4 6 1 2 2 0 18 S. Francis G 32 6-16 3-4 0-0 4 1 5 3 0 0 3 0 15 Game 16: Houston vs. Seattle (Away) PLAYER POS MINS FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS B. Barry G 28 3-5 2-3 2-2 0 2 2 4 1 1 1 1 10 S. Francis G 43 8-17 1-7 11-14 1 5 6 1 5 2 2 0 28 Game 17: Houston vs. Utah (Home) PLAYER POS MINS FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS R. Lopez G 36 5-7 0-1 6-7 1 4 5 9 2 1 3 0 16 S. Francis G 39 4-10 0-1 11-14 1 1 2 4 5 3 3 0 19 Game 18: Houston vs. New Orleans (Away) PLAYER POS MINS FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS B. Davis G 44 6-21 1-10 3-3 3 1 4 11 2 2 0 0 16 S. Francis G 41 3-12 1-4 3-4 2 2 4 6 2 0 4 0 10 Game 19: Houston vs. Detroit (Home) PLAYER POS MINS FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS C. Billups G 34 2-6 0-0 7-8 0 4 4 4 2 0 5 0 11 S. Francis G 36 4-13 0-0 1-4 3 3 6 11 4 1 2 0 9 Game 20: Houston vs. Portland (Home) PLAYER POS MINS FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS D. Stoudamire G 39 6-14 5-9 2-2 1 1 2 2 1 2 1 0 19 S. Francis G 41 6-16 1-3 2-4 3 2 5 5 3 1 4 1 15 Game 21: Houston vs. San Antonio (Home) PLAYER POS MINS FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS T. Parker G 45 5-17 2-7 1-2 1 4 5 10 2 1 2 0 13 S. Francis G 45 7-22 0-2 4-4 1 5 6 3 4 1 5 2 18
Now that you've finished reading London'sBurning's stats, go back and look at the difference in minutes between Francis and the opponent. When the minutes are actually close, he plays them to a standstill. This is our franchise player.
No, you misunderstand. I quoted your post because I was in complete agreement, thus the . The rest of the post wasn't aimed at you.
Marbury, Kidd, Payton, Davis That’s it when it comes to PG’s that are better that SF. You think SAC wouldn’t trade Biddy for SF or SAN wouldn’t trade parker for Steve? Yao is not Tim Duncan or Shaq in the fact you can surround him with role players and compete for a title. The fact is Steve has his good points and his bad points. Just like everyone else in the league. This year is the first year Steve is getting some actually coaching since he has been in the NBA. Remember SF had basically no High School coaching and only 1 year of Division I college coaching. His best is still to come. You know what, one thing Steve has that other stars in this league such as Vince Carter, Tmac, or Kobe, is teammates would go to battle with Steve. You can tell how much his team looks up to him.
Just to make it easier on the eyes to read and compare I wrote it differently so that the numbers don't go off to the left away from being under each statistical bracket. Again if anyone would like to chime in with averages that I left out providing the information I've given so far feel free too. It's ashame I suck at math, but feel free to compare the Assist/Turnover ratio of Steve and his opponents faced thus far, and if possible their efficiency. Thanks. S. Francis vs. Player X: S. Francis Average In Comparison: Minutes: 39.1 (+5.1 better than Player X at 33.9 in) FG %: .400 (130-325) (- .025 worse than Player X at .425 (100-235) ) 3-P FG %: .288 (21-73) (-.061 worse than Player X at .349 (22-63) ) FT %: .789 (86-109) (-1.44 worse than Player X at .933 (42-45) ) OFF REBS: 33 (+17 more than Player X at 16) DEF REBS: 84 (+53 more than Player X at 31) TOT REBS: 117 (+70 more than Player X at 47) AST: 104 (-20 worse than Player X at 124) ST: 29 (+3 more than Player X at 26) TO: 78 (+32 more than Player X at 46) BS: 12 (+10 more than Player X at 2) PTS: 367 in 21 games (+71 more than Player X at 296)
You're making it sound like Rudy T was a big dummie on the sidelines. He was no great shakes with the Xs and Os, but his personnel decisions were some of the worst in the NBA the last few years. If he wasn't coaching the biggest collection of overpaid Rockets in the history of the franchise, then I think he would have stood a chance. Bibby has one of the best outside shots as a point guard which is extremely important in the zone defense era. He can pass better than Steve which is very important in the King's system which uses some Princeton offense which is heavily dependent on good passers. This is why Vlade and Brad Miller are doing great for that team. Why would the Kings trade Bibby for Francis? He does not have the tools to play in that kind of offense. As far as San Antonio goes, they are paying Tony Parker around $1 million. $1 million for his performance is much better than $10 million for Steve's performance on the court. I always look at the financial side of the equation when looking at trades. As far as Yao goes, look at the Kings. There is noone on that team is that is really considered a dominant player. Brad Miller is playing pretty well, but I don't think he's dominant. He just plays really well within that system. Is it not possible to have Yao be a pivotal part in a system like that? Maybe Van Gundy can do it. Maybe not. Van Gundy's offensive mind is nowhere near the level that Rick Adelman has. Jerry Sloan's offense is also much better than Van Gundy's. Van Gundy resorted to the all iso, all the time offense in the San Antonio game. Would Adelman or Sloan have done that? I doubt it.
uh...uh..(searches frantically for the embarrassed smilie) oops...my bad ...I misunderstood....thanks for agreeing with me..not many do....lol ok carry on..
I know your making a point here but saying steve isn't a playmaker..??.. Everyone including Steve and JVG agree that he is almost too much of a playmaker when trying to hit the "homerun" shots and he doesn't need any help to get his shot off. He needs to learn his role in the offense and learn the offensive agenda and then change his game accordingly to perfect that role. That's sacrificing your game for the team which I think he is hesitant to do... It's a pitty because when he starts to understand how to prioritize his assignments and this team takes off, he will look back and wish he had been more trusting. I believe in his abilities and hope he helps bring some pride back to his game and the team. Has anyone else noticed how Cuttino is taking such pride in all the parts of his game? I think Jeff is the one that brought that mentality to the table and Cato, Jackson, Cuttino, and Mo are sold but I don't thnk Yao is because he is hesitant to be aggressive which I hope he buys into soon. I think Steve wants to buy into the system and is trying too but doesn't really know how to change his game. I think Steve needs more coaching time even though he has been in the league for a long time because he doesn't have a high basketball IQ and since our coaching staff does and they want him to change, I hope they are teaching him in a way the he is receptive too...
Would you trade FRANCIS for MARBURY? Me--no way. Francis demonstrates more leadership and charisma on the court. I think he will grow tremendously in Van Gundy's system.
I hate to say it after you've done so much work, but the numbers are wrong! I was intrigued by the steals number that you came up with there, so I checked all the starters in the league at the PG spot and pulled out some stats - sadly I neglected a couple of categories (FGA and height/ weight) - but here they are Point Guard X: MPG: 33.61 FG%: 41.69 FT%: 79.83 3P%: 31.49 PPG: 14.21 RPG: 3.57 APG: 5.8 SPG: 1.26 BPG: 0.21 TPG: 2.43 That's a pretty big difference in the steals category - in fact the only PG to average more than the 1.9 spg you proposed was Baron Davis (at 2.8 per game, boosting the 'average' quite a lot!), the next best was at 1.7 (Kidd), then 1.6 (Marbury), then 1.5 (Miller) then Francis and others at 1.4. Here are Francis' stats again; apart from his TO's and FG% (which is abnormally low for him, and one would expect it to rise over the course of the season) he is clearly well above 'average' for a starting PG in this league. Steve Francis: MPG: 38.8 FG%: 39.5 FT%: 80.0 3P%: 29.3 PPG: 17.5 RPG: 5.5 APG: 5.0 SPG: 1.36 BPG: 0.55 TPG: 3.64
When I posted Davis was averaging 2.91. Additionally you missed Arenas ( 1.9), and then Kidd was at 1.7 as you say, but then there are others; Payton is at 1.48, Miller is at 1.57, Marbury is at 1.62, Snow is at 1.5, as is Wade. But it does seem too high nonetheless...I'll do a double check to see if there was a problem calculating the average...hang on... ...and you're right. Nice catch, DrN. The real spg for Point Guard X should be 1.27/game. Thanks buddy.
Hang on, I just noticed that it wasn't just the steals in your opinion...let me go back...No, I'd have to say you're way off. My nubers check out. I guess the only discrepencty can be on who qualifies as a starter. I said in my initial post that on teams where there was no clear srater, I just omitted them. Did you count someone from everyone's teasm, because I didn't want to have someone like Marko Jaric, who's sort of a starter, sort of not...My point was to calculate the stats of legimitate starters, all of which the Rockets are, thus the comparison is kept accurate. I suspect you included part timers or guys who are one of many rotating starters...could that be it?
