Trump expected to end "Dreamers" program

Your post is steaming hot garbage in my opinion as well, not sure if that will help my argument (it won't) but hey, I give back what you give.

Well at least you admit that Republicans and Trump want DACA deported, so if they are deported the GOP should own it. They should thump their chest about it as well.

So, tell me, how is the wall going to prevent more illegals from coming across the border?

I'm curious how people think in 2018 this is going to stop illegal immigration.

Or maybe they don't want to see billions wasted on a useless wall. Not only would it waste billions of dollars but it would be a rather ugly black mark upon this country when it comes to international relations.

There is an actual cost to the wall, I thought the party of fiscal responsibility would understand that? Guess not. You'd think said party would wonder about the efficacy of the wall and if it is worth its very high price tag and if those billions of US dollars (Since Mexico is NOT paying for it as promised) could be better spent elsewhere.

 

Three to seven trillion dollars for the Tax Plan.

Thirty three billion dollars for a wall and increased border protection.

At least fifty four billion dollars in increased military spending.

Why the **** not? Right?

Some things to consider.............

Every single penny of every student loan could have been paid off two to five times over for the cost of the Tax Plan.

It would only cost eight trillion dollars to pay off every single home mortgage in the USA.

 

Meanwhile in Puerto Rico... but hey, lets throw that money at the wall that wouldn't stop a third of the immigration.

 

And are those borders thousands of miles long in a desert? Are those borders between two countries that do hundreds of billions in trade?

No? Then walls work in certain context but not a long a very long border between two major trading partners. Do you even realize how many freight trucks cross the border monthly? Of course not, because if you knew you would see how the Trump wall is a boondoggle.

 

Until Republicans realize how much it would cost to do so...... it's actually very expensive to find, detain, hold, and deport people.

Then lets overhaul the visa system and go after employers who hire illegal immigrants.

 

There's nothing that I said there that is inconsistent with what I'm saying now. I was against the "BAN THE MUSLIMS" and the "MEXICO WILL PAY FOR THE WALL" nonsense rhetoric in the campaign, that doesn't mean I'm against a solution to DACA and securing the border.

I still think Trump is an idiot and I'd never vote for him, I still think that Trump gets the white racist vote just like Obama got the black racist vote, I still think that going the "lesser of 2 evils" route is stupid and I wish political parties would nominate someone worth voting FOR rather than nominating garbage and telling their people that they are less awful than the other garbage that was nominated.

I'm not sure why you think I've said anything inconsistent.

 

I'm convinced.

 

Uh, Berlin Wall was for keeping people IN. And the wall was the least effective part of the three part apparatus. They had essentially kill zones with razor wire and land mines and guards who would gun down people trying to escape.

But, of course, there were still ways people crossed back and forth. Whatever. Just a really weird thing to bring up as a "good" comparison.

 

You cannot possibly be this dense. You're just trolling, right?

 

I dunno, for someone that thought Trump was the worst thing for the country, enabled racism, and thought he was a complete idiot you sure do seem to side with him every time. Guess he's not so bad after all?

You can still be a conservative and admit the wall is a silly idea.

 

I thought that a Trump vs Hillary election was the worst thing for America, and I still do.

I thought that racists would love some of his rhetoric, and I still think that racists loved some of his rhetoric.

I thought that he was a complete idiot, and I still think that he's a complete idiot.

I guess the difference between me and you is that I don't judge things based on who says it, I judge things based on their own merit. The hysterical reaction by the Trump Derangement Syndrome people has made it appear as if normal people are Trump supporters by comparison simply because they aren't suffering from a mental condition related to who is president. That doesn't make them actually Trump supporters.

When a plan is proposed that is a fair compromise that could actually do some good, I'm going to view it on it's merit even if the plan is pushed by Trump. I'd feel the same way about the plan if it was pushed by anyone. People on all sides of the issue have things they don't like about this plan, and IMO that's evidence that it's solid.

Democrats don't like it because it would be a win for the president and it would make the midterms more difficult for them. Republicans don't like it because a lot of them said they'd never agree to amnesty. Pro illegal immigration people don't like it because it would make future illegal immigration more difficult.

 

Honestly though, you were pretty 100% against Trump...

Yet you are quick to attack people since Trump's inauguration if they dare call Trump racist, his followers racist, or his policies racist, although it's pretty clear that before you thought there was a lot of racism fueling Trump's rise to office.

All I'm saying is, you were pretty damn hard on Trump. You were a never Trump guy and now you are an always Trump guy? What is the last thing Trump did since becoming president that you disagree with? This guy you've called stupid and thought would ruin the country?

I mean, you still haven't explained to me why a Wall is needed. I've clearly in this thread, in general, have explained why I think a wall is a silly idea. You can't prove that I hate the wall just because of him because no other politician has proposed it.

Yeah, you are actually right here, but the Wall is a poison pill. I think for many reasons. I think ANY other GOP candidate a lot of the issues we would not have. If this were Bush or Rubio this isn't even an issue because there is no wall. Instead, they'd be squabbling about how much to spend on border security and such.

I mean do you think that Rubio would be a better president than Trump? It has to sting a little that the GOP has all 3 branches of the government and out of everyone on the right...Trump is the man in charge of it. If there is a blue wave this year isn't it going to feel like a huge wasted opportunity and wouldn't you blame Trump for that?

I think the Dems could survive forfeiting the wall. I think it would fire a lot of liberal voters up to tear the thing down before even a stone is laid for it. I mean, they would whine about Democrats being weak led by the more progressive TYT/Bernie crowd but those people will still vote blue now knowing what is on the line.

Schumer and co would have to explain them bending over again but I think losing elections make people more desperate.(Which is why the pendulum always swings) Whereas 8 years of Obama had people not voting because Clinton didn't offer Free College like Bernie...I think losing and the specter of another 4 years of Trump would scare a lot of democratic voters into action.

I do think, in the end, the Dems will give him money for the wall and run on halting/reversing/tearing it down, I think they will agree to fund his wall in the end.

I also think granting amnesty, even if he gets his wall, is a pretty big win for the Democrats. His base HATES the idea of amnesty, every time he even brings it up in passing Brietbart, Ann Coulter, and the alt-rightosphere throws a wicked fit about it. For this reason I think the Democrats would win that battle even if he got his wall because to get it he'd have to do the one thing they don't want him to do and that is keep all those brown people in the country. I think he loses a lot of his drones when he grants 1.8 million people amnesty. The only reason they are in this thing is to kick people out of the country AND build their wall.

 

Yeah, I was, it's why I didn't vote for him despite Hillary being a disaster.

I don't think Trump is actually racist though, I don't think his actual policies are racist either. I called him out for ridiculous rhetoric in the campaign and those who supported that rhetoric. That's not the same as "You aren't irrationally freaking out about Trump being president thus you are a racist Trump supporter"

I also never said that there was "a lot of racism fueling Trumps rise to office". The number of actual racists is fairly small, they aren't going to "fuel" anything.

No, not in the least, actually the fact that you think I'm an "Always Trump" guy simply because I'm not irrational about things just shows that you might have a touch of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

When he says stupid things I say he said stupid things, when people freak out and pretend that he's literally worse than Hitler for innocuous reasons, I say they are being stupid.

Because you have a problem with illegal immigration and a physical wall would make it more difficult for people to simply walk into the country.

That said, even if you don't like it, what harm does it do? Why let something like that get in the way of meaningful immigration reform? It seems kind of stupid.....like the kind of stupid that comes from "thinking" with emotions.

I would have actually voted for Rubio if it was him instead of Trump running against Hillary, but there's things I disagree with him on as well. Hell I'd have voted for a lot of people over Trump or Hillary.

As to the second part, well as of now tax reform got done, a good SCOTUS pick was put on the bench, and if immigration reform gets done too, that's not really a waste. Since you mentioned the idea of a "wave election", if we're honest, that's why Democrats don't want to allow immigration reform to go through. They don't want yet another accomplishment to make things that much harder for them.

The problem is that it kills narratives they'd want to run on. If it was Trump that granted amnesty.....and made it actually happen where so many others have failed, it would be more difficult to run on the race baiting nonsense about "hating brown people" and that's something the Democrats have to be really afraid of because that's just about all they have right now.

 

I didn't say you actually said that, but reading through your posts it's certainly implied that you thought a lot of his rise was fueled by racism. It may not be racism in the technical terms, but polls show that there is a lot of anxiety coming from white people about a demographic change, a lot of the immigration debate comes from this fear.

Nah, comes from the fact you always side with him. Always. Again, when is the last time you disagreed with something Trump did?

I'm the one thinking with emotions? I can link you SEVERAL different studies, reports, whatever you want to call them that tell you this wall is a stupid idea. If YOU refuse to consider them that actually makes you the one thinking with emotions.

To sum it up. A THIRD of immigration are people that overstay their visas, that means a wall doesn't stop them.

The harm it does is it is entirely expensive. That's the harm it does, for something that doesn't stop a third of immigration, you'd hope for it to be cheaper. Drones would be cheaper. Going after companies that hire illegals would be cheaper. There is also the whole thing of it being a stain on our reputation to others in the world.

I don't think it kills any narrative. All they really need to say is Mexico was supposed to pay for the wall, but since they are not, the American people will be paying for it and just remind their voters that elections have consequences, since many Democratic voters forgot that very thought and decided to not vote because Clinton wasn't progressive enough. It is very hard to get your side energized for elections when it has had the executive seat for 8 years.

Yeah, the losing side isn't concerned about stuff like that though. They will be voting blue just to get red out of office. Obama passed ACA, did that help him? No, it motivated the right wing base to destroy it. A lot of that was said about Obama and his healthcare, that he was the president to do it, blah blah blah this, and blah blah blah that.

You act as if this wall is something people want, it isn't. Therefore this wall has 0 chance helping Trump, just like ACA didn't poll too well, and it hurt Obama. An unpopular policy rarely helps the sitting president unless it immediately makes people lives better. In fact, it is polling lower than ACA did! This won't help Trump.

And yet here you go again, calling it nonsense although you thought Trump was appealing to racists while he ran for president. According to you, it is completely fair to consider Trump supporters racist. Did you not say this?

 

Indian tribes across the country are considering giving citizenship in their tribes to all Dreamers - this would be excellent.

DD

 

When did moralit ever come up? I said it was effective at what it did. Please don’t dumb this down to @FranchiseBlade’s “because you don’t support the terrorists you must think Asad is a swell guy” logic.

 

Morality had nothing to do with what I brought up. I was pointing out how it was not an appropriate comparison because it was functionally a different thing for a different purpose. The wall was essentially to hide what was going on behind it which was the real border crossing prevention. It didn’t “work” because of the wall. It worked because of the whole fear of death from the preventive layers on the inside leading up to the wall.

 

A wall is a start to immigration reform. It's not an end all solution, and nobody said it's 100% illegal immigration proof, but it's a start. Some folks will think it's stupid and waste of $ and resources, but some will see it the opposite. If it's such a bad idea, why don't some of you smarta55es come up with some suggestion how to curb illegal aliens, unless you're just pro-illegal immigration?

 

Or you could not support terrorists and not support Asad. Those aren't the only two options.

Don't misrepresent my stance.