1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Prince Luc should be starting

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by csc177, Feb 4, 2018.

  1. tehG l i d e

    tehG l i d e Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    23,217
    Likes Received:
    14,104
    "The Luc Effect"

    Top 5 defense has coincided with him being on the floor this season....can't be a coincidence the Rockets dropped down to very mediocre to poor when he got hurt

    He fill in all the gaps and covers for everyone's slack. Very sound, fundamental and doesn't make many mistakes like silly fouls or getting burnt gambling for steals.
     
  2. MrButtocks

    MrButtocks Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    7,248
    Likes Received:
    5,139
    Luc is perfect off the bench. Our defense our 6th best in the league earlier this year with Ariza in the starting lineup. Ariza is a better shooter (barely) and a better passer. He's also a better defender one on one and very disciplined. Honestly, I'm fine with whoever starting, we're lucky to have both to fill all the minutes at SF.
     
  3. smoothie

    smoothie Jabari Jungle

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2001
    Messages:
    20,716
    Likes Received:
    6,945

    I agree that ariza earned the right to start. starting isn't about who's the better player... ending a close game is. ariza starts at SFunless we get george or lebron to replace him.

    i think luc should start at PF. his defense against starting PFs will help the rockets jump out to early leads, while ryno will have an easier time scoring against bench guys. however, morey would never torpedo ryno's trade value by benching his $20M man.
     
    vince and Richie_Rich like this.
  4. D-rock

    D-rock Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    40,743
    Likes Received:
    64,228
    Maybe keep Luc in 2nd unit and trade for a defensive upgrade at 4? That way our D efficiency not so dependent on ONE player.
     
  5. hakeemthagreat

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    6,127
    Likes Received:
    4,103
    Trevor's shot selection at times is atrocious. Luc is by FAR the smarter player
     
    fattz and hakeem94 like this.
  6. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2000
    Messages:
    21,644
    Likes Received:
    10,555
    Let's hope we can keep both of them this off season. It's going to be tough if we go after Lebron.
     
    hakeem94 likes this.
  7. Codman

    Codman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2001
    Messages:
    6,765
    Likes Received:
    11,710
    Respectfully, I completely disagree. Trevor has always shot within the confines of an offense without over-forcing the issue. Sure, his shot has gone cold many times, but when it has counted, he's knocked down those threes.

    Luc has had a great season so far, but he doesn't have that track record yet. To his credit, I think he's a bit quicker off the dribble at this point, but he hasn't played as long as Trevor, nor has he come close to Trev's minutes.

    As much as I know Trevor is part of the glue that holds this team together, I'm aware of his weaknesses as a player. With that, he's still our best chance to win a title at the SF spot.
     
    topfive likes this.
  8. Vindicator

    Vindicator Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    141
    All the Ariza cheerleaders seriously need to calm down, because they're blind love and stubborn insistence on Ariza are really starting to hurt this team.

    Here's the fact:

    When Luc is on the court, our defensive rating is 97.4. When he's off, that number drops to 108.6.

    When Ariza is on the court, our defensive rating is 106.2. When he's off, that number ACTUALLY IMPROVES to 101.6.

    https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612745/onoffcourt-advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=1

    Obviously who they usually play against has to be accounted for, but Luc has started 8 games for us, and in those games our D has been stellar with defensive rating of 97.0, which is even better than Luc's usual DRtg (https://stats.nba.com/player/201601/advanced/)

    Luc is also 1st in defensive RPM among all PFs and 6th overall who average more than 25 minutes per game. Ariza actually has NEGATIVE DRPM (-0.07) and is measly 44th among SFs in that category.

    Luc's opponents shoot -1.1% worse than on average, and - 4.7% worse on 3-pointers (https://stats.nba.com/player/201601/defense-dash/)

    Ariza's opponents shoot 3.4% BETTER than on average, and -3.1% worse on 3-pointers (https://stats.nba.com/player/2772/defense-dash/)

    Ariza is a better shooter, but shooting is not what we need in our line-up. We need a top-notch elite defensive specialist who can lift the entire team's defense up, and Luc fits that bill perfectly and Ariza doesn't. At least not anymore.

    Lastly, Ariza's defense doesn't even pass the eye-test. He can barely stay with his men as they easily blow past by him, and there is literally ZERO lock-down effect whenever we put Ariza on an elite offensive player. It has not worked for the past 2~3 years, and it just drives me crazy as to why we keep doing this when there is absolutely no benefit to be gained from it. It's time to acknowledge that Ariza simply isn't a great defensive player anymore. He's closer to average at this point in his career, and all the relevant data back this up.

    If Roberson can successfully start for OKC - which we now know had much more impact on OKC's team defense than we thought - there is no reason why Luc can't start for us. As for Ariza, it's been a good run, but it's time to slowly move away from him.
     
    #28 Vindicator, Feb 4, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
  9. Coach E

    Coach E Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2012
    Messages:
    670
    Likes Received:
    904
    Agreed 100%

    And tbh, Green off the bench over Ariza
     
  10. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    18,328
    Likes Received:
    18,330
    Yeah not a bad idea. Won't really affect minutes but Ariza has always been dramatically better when well rested and I feel like our starting line up needs every bit of athleticism it can get. I feel like Luc is more of a threat in transition and right now with CP/JH taking 15-20 3's per game, there are not enough shots for both Ariza and Anderson. Ariza would be coming off the bench playing with Gordon, CP3 and Tucker a lot which is incredible lol. Our bench could probably get HC in the East lol.
     
  11. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    18,328
    Likes Received:
    18,330
    You are not reading these stats correctly. Remember that these numbers are heavily dependent on the person you're replacing/joining on the court, which is an interesting comparison, but it's not telling us one player is better than the other. To understand this, you have to understand the possibility that if you started Luc, these stats may just switch between them as well and by your logic, we would have to then swap them again over and over again.
     
  12. Newlin

    Newlin Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Messages:
    8,076
    Likes Received:
    9,808
    I don't care who starts, I just wish we could get everyone healthy so MDA can really figure the best combinations. We have had very few games with the entire rotation healthy. But yes, I've been very impressed with Luc.
     
  13. Vindicator

    Vindicator Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    141
    If you read my entire post, I address that exact point right below that paragraph.

    1. Among those games where Luc started for us, our DRtg is still much better than usual 2. DRPM is a stat that accounts for who you play with & against, and Ariza still comes out poorly by that metric.
     
  14. Garner

    Garner Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Messages:
    4,688
    Likes Received:
    1,846
    Ariza won one championship with LA. His play did not lead to “some [] championships”

    Washington has zero championships.
     
    BigShasta likes this.
  15. topfive

    topfive CF OG

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    19,025
    Likes Received:
    37,406
    I see. So if more people liked Luc more than Ariza, MDA would make the change?

    How would he even find out? Should we write a group letter and give him our thoughts? Surely that would be sufficient. This must be done NOW!
     
  16. valorita

    valorita Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    3,101
    Likes Received:
    1,765
    Luc is a more athletic and less vocal Shane Battier.
     
  17. KALIKULI

    KALIKULI Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2000
    Messages:
    2,613
    Likes Received:
    16
    Both Ariza and Mbah a Moute will be resigned next season unless Lebron gets into the mixed. One of them will be gone. But I pick Ariza.
     
  18. Vindicator

    Vindicator Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    141
    We play so well with Luc starting, it's almost treasonous to suggest that Ariza should start over Prince Luc, because what? loyalty? team victory > player's feelings.
     
  19. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    Messages:
    28,090
    Likes Received:
    21,303
    Ariza & Luc will both be starting. Ryno off the bench.
     
    DreamShook likes this.
  20. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Messages:
    14,059
    Likes Received:
    16,011
    Man . Maybe we do keep Moute and PJ starting and bring Ariza , Ryan , and green off the bench .

    Having CP , Clint , Luc , and PJ on the floor makes our D insane . James is no slouch either right now .

    There are 96 minutes at the 3 and 4 .

    We could give 2 guys 25

    The other 2 , 20

    And still have 10 left for green if we took 5 mins from either the 5 spot or from the 1/2

    We should use our depth to keep everyone fresh .
     
    Vindicator likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now