1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Congress Wants to Tape Your Mouth Shut, Steal Your Wallet

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by GladiatoRowdy, Dec 5, 2003.

  1. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Messages:
    16,596
    Likes Received:
    496
    ACTION ALERT: PROTECT FREE SPEECH AND YOUR WALLET

    Congress Wants to Tape Your Mouth Shut, Steal Your Wallet

    *** Congress to ban private advertising in support of mar1juana law reform

    *** At same time, to spend $145 million in tax money on government anti-mar1juana ads

    It's finally happened. Not content with arresting 700,000 Americans a year for mar1juana offenses, Congress now wants to make it illegal even to talk about mar1juana. Drug war extremists are trying to ban private advertising on buses, subways, or trains that calls for the reform of mar1juana laws.
    Worse still, the same bill also spends $145 million in taxpayer money on anti-mar1juana government propaganda.

    That's right. Congress wants to run anti-mar1juana ads with your tax money, while at the same time banning you from using your own money to run ads in support of mar1juana law reform. They want to prohibit you from spending money on things you believe in, while taking money out of your paycheck to spend on things you don't believe in.

    Without being able to advertise on buses, trains, and subways, it will be very difficult for drug policy reformers to get our message directly to the American people - which is exactly what the drug war extremists fear. They want to shut us up! And they will get away with it if you don't act right now!

    ACTIONS TO TAKE

    1) Fax your Members of Congress and tell them to protect free speech. You can fax them for free at
    http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/ctt.asp?u=5652&l=11027

    2) Forward this alert to your friends, family, and co-workers. We need thousands of Americans to fax Congress.

    MORE INFORMATION

    Every year Congress passes 13 federal spending bills providing money to various federal agencies. Sometimes the House passes a spending bill that is different from a bill the Senate passes. When that is the case, Congress appoints what's called a "conference committee" to reconcile differences between the two bills. This conference committee then sends a final version of the bill to both the House and Senate for one final up and down vote, with no chance for an amendment. Frequently members of the conference committee add controversial things to the spending bill at the last minute, knowing that their colleagues won't vote against an entire spending bill just because one thing in it is controversial.

    This year Congressional leadership decided to reconcile multiple spending bills within one conference committee, producing a single federal spending bill (known as an "omnibus" spending bill) to send to the House and Senate floor for a final vote. This tactic allowed them to slip in all sorts of controversial things they could not otherwise pass into law, knowing that Members of Congress are unlikely to vote against such an omnibus funding bill just because they don't like some parts of it.

    During conference House and Senate leaders loaded up the omnibus bill (HR 2673) with dozens of controversial provisions. One such provision, added by Rep. Ernest Istook Jr. (R-OK) would prohibit any transit system that receives federal funds from running advertising from a group that wants to decriminalize or legalize mar1juana. If enacted, it would prevent groups like Change the Climate and the Drug Policy Alliance from buying ad space on buses, trains, and subways around the country. It would prevent drug policy reformers from getting our reform message directly to the American people.

    At the same time, the omnibus bill gives the Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP) $145 million to run anti-mar1juana ads next year. (This provision was already a part of one of the federal spending bills that Congress considered earlier this year and was not added by the conference committee. The amount of taxpayer money spent on government anti-mar1juana ads would have been significantly higher had the Drug Policy Alliance and other groups not worked to cut the budget.) ONDCP has already spent taxpayer money this year on television commercials comparing drug users to terrorists and claiming that smoking mar1juana will get you raped and pregnant, make you shoot your neighbor, and make you run over little kids with your car. Next year's ads are expected to tell the American people that mar1juana is more dangerous than heroin.

    The House is expected to vote on the omnibus spending bill next week. The Senate may vote on it next week, but more likely will postpone voting on it until January. Because the bill cannot be amended to remove the controversial provisions, the only way to prevent them from becoming law is if a majority of members of the House or the Senate vote against the entire omnibus bill. While this is unlikely in the House, it's possible in the Senate. Many Senators are upset at the large number of controversial things added by the conference committee, including this drug policy issue. Senators are also upset over the very undemocratic way in which the omnibus bill was put together.

    The Drug Policy Alliance is urging voters to contact their U.S.
    Representatives and Senators and tell them to vote against the omnibus spending bill (HR 2673) because it was put together in an undemocratic manner and contains provisions that suppress free speech.

    You can fax your Members of Congress for free at
    http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/ctt.asp?u=5652&l=11028

    For a Washington Post news story on the controversial provision, see:
    http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/ctt.asp?u=5652&l=11029

    The full text of the very large omnibus bill can be viewed by going to http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/ctt.asp?u=5652&l=11030 and clicking on HR2673.

    The relevant provision can be viewed here:
    http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/ctt.asp?u=5652&l=11031

    Excerpts from the conference report can be viewed here:
    http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/ctt.asp?u=5652&l=11032
     
  2. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Messages:
    16,596
    Likes Received:
    496
    So, if they can ban THIS type of speech, why can't they regulate or ban "issue ads" paid for with undisclosed contributions from anonymous contributors?

    Yet one more step in shredding the bill of rights in the name of the drug war.
     
  3. Vik

    Vik Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    21
    andymoon - thanks for bringing this to light, I was unaware of it.

    I think EVERYBODY should be disturbed that the government is, in essence, suppressing dissenting views while conducting their own propaganda campaign. I'd expect this in a dictatorship, but this is hardly a democratic bill.

    This really has nothing to do with politics or your views on mar1juana use. This has to do with the fundamental democratic virtue of dissent. This is downright frightening.
     
  4. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    18,452
    Likes Received:
    119


    This government has been doing it since January 2001.
     
  5. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2003
    Messages:
    3,336
    Likes Received:
    1
    Excellent points. Couldn't have said it better.

    Thanks for the post, andymoon. I'm faxing right now.
     
  6. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Messages:
    16,596
    Likes Received:
    496
    I wonder if DD has anything to say about this.
     
  7. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    129,040
    Likes Received:
    39,510
    Not sure what I think about it Andy...I mean they did the same thing to cigerrette ads for TV.

    It seems heavy handed, but mar1juana is proven to be unhealthy for you, and their job is to protect the people.

    I just don't know.....seems harsh...but somehow ok.

    Argh...can't decide...sorry.

    DD
     
  8. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,645
    If I read the article correctly, then the bill will only prohibit the advertising of pro 'reform mar1juana laws' on federally subsidized (in the described case) vehicles. I would assume that folks can still buy billboard space, radio time, TV time, magazine ads, newspaper ads, etc. the way they do today.

    The sub title of the posted article appears a little exaggerated when it reads:

    "Congress to ban private advertising in support of mar1juana law reform"

    They are only attempting to ban the advertising on federally funded "things", unless I am missing something.
     
  9. MadMax

    MadMax Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    76,683
    Likes Received:
    25,924
    no that's different:

    they banned advertisements soliciting the sale of cigarettes in certain forums;

    this is a ban on a political ad encouraging reform in laws governing mar1juana.

    that's a HUGE distinction in my book.
     
  10. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    22,412
    Likes Received:
    362
    It is just amazing to me that mar1juana continues to be the taboo topic it is. Outside of That 70's Show, there are ZERO references to it on television. You can have 5 openly gay men to an on-air "makeover" of a straight man, but you can't talk about reefer. Hilarious! :D
     
  11. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,826
    Likes Received:
    41,302
    Not just your book, any book. A purely content based restriction on purely political speech?

    Man, that is about the easiest case of a blatant First Amendment violation I have ever heard of...whatever idiot congressman/men is behind this stupidity should be forced be taken out back, beaten, forced to attend remedial civics class, and then be forced to pay court costs when a court strikes down this travesty.
     
  12. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Messages:
    16,596
    Likes Received:
    496
    If you can find any documented case of mar1juana EVER killing ANYONE, you will be further ahead than anyone in history. I would never try to claim that there are NO health effects, but there is no way to even begin to make the case that you just claimed is a proven fact. mar1juana was banned in part because politicians claimed that it made people, especially blacks and hispanics, violent and prone to robbery, rape, and murder.

    There is NO scientific basis for your statement. If their job was to help people by banning dangerous drugs, alcohol and tobacco would be at the top of the banned list while pot would be redily available, as would MDMA.

    It would be one thing if the ads were for MJ itself, but the ads are political, advocating a change in policy. This is political speech that should not be stifled under ANY circumstances, especially considering that the government is running its own advertisements advocating a position in this fight.
     
  13. MadMax

    MadMax Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    76,683
    Likes Received:
    25,924
    what if someone said, "hey...i want prostitution to be legal...so i'm gonna run political ads on subways, buses, etc. should the government be compelled to allow that??"

    just playing devil's advocate here..trying to think it through a bit.
     
  14. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Messages:
    15,567
    Likes Received:
    6,556
    To piggyback on MadMax's post, I don't see the outrage in banning advertisements against repealing rape laws or child molestation laws. This to me is an issue driven complaint by the liberals, not a debate on constitutional or legal principals.
     
  15. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,826
    Likes Received:
    41,302
    Max, as far as I know, the only form of purely political speech that can be censored based on its content (and I'm not even sure that it can, totally, I think its murky) is speech that advocates the overthrow of the government.

    But basically, any government official saying that you can't run pollitical ads because you don't agree with the political message, as long as the political message isn't hate speech or obscenity, is about the biggest no-no out there. It doesn't matter if its prostitution or light rail, that's the reason why we have the first amendment, really.
     
  16. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,826
    Likes Received:
    41,302
    Most Legal Principals, from either the right or left side of the aisle, as well as corresponding legal principles, would disagree with you.

    Watch it TJ, you're a little out of your league on this one.
     
  17. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    43,783
    Likes Received:
    3,705
    I think you're absolutely right. It's a very tricky subject, I don't know how I feel about it. Who is to decide what is a legitimate topic to lobby for.
     
  18. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Messages:
    15,567
    Likes Received:
    6,556
    So you believe that on principle, most 'legal principals' would have no problem with lobbyist groups running advertisements on tv which advocate repealing the current laws prohibiting rape and child molestation? I scoff at this.
     
  19. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,826
    Likes Received:
    41,302
    Scoff all you want, but purely political speech is pretty well protected from content based restriction,as long as that stuff doesn't cross the line into obscenity.

    Advertisements on TV bring up an entirely different matter. Since the airwaves are a public resource, the FCC has more leeway to regulate based on "offensive" content (think George Carlin, seven words, etc; wrongly, IMO though).
     
  20. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    35,985
    Likes Received:
    36,840
    Important points:

    mar1juana (if ingested via food) ==> less harmful than booze, less risk to health than driving an automobile. Was legal at one time in US history.

    Rape and child molestation ==> incredibly harmful, and never legal within the history of the United States.

    Once again, T_J opens up a big can of red herrings instead of whoop-ass. What a tired routine.
     

Share This Page