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Can We Win a Title With Francis as the Point Guard??

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Manny Ramirez, Dec 4, 2003.

  1. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    In reading some threads here, mainly by Almu and the trade thread by shawnandme (?), a couple of posts stood out to me:

    1) Almu quoted TheFreak in saying that he (TheFreak) felt that we won't win a championship any time soon. Of course, when I first came to this site, I would disagree with that sentiment, but after seeing the Rockets continue to miss the playoffs, I can't help but wonder if that is true.

    2) Jeff mentioned in the trade thread that the Rockets current mgmt love Steve and don't feel that he is the problem and would like to deal Mobley, Cato, and Nachbar. So, it seems, that unless they (Les and company) are saying one thing for image reasons when they really mean the exact opposite, that Steve is here to stay. Now, whether that means he is always going to play the point here is a different story.

    So, let's go ahead and say that we can take Les at his word and that his intention is to keep Francis as long as he can play at the highest level. You would think that he would feel the same way with Yao, and of course, he is committed to Van Gundy. But what are the pieces that are needed to fill in around these 3 individuals?? I have a feeling that Les is going to give this current mix this season to adjust to Van Gundy. If the team still fails to reach the playoffs, something will be done in terms of dealing players.

    However, the key question is this one: do you see the Rockets being a championship team with Steve being the 1 (the point)? I have my doubts. I just don't think the guy is smart enough to be effective as a point guard should. He is better off to play the 2 spot and leave the playmaking to a bigger guard, one that is 6'5" or taller.

    The worst thing I think is to fool ourselves that Steve is an okay, or even worse, a great PG. Until his play shows otherwise, I don't think this is a wise thing. But what scares me more than that is if the Rockets do make the playoffs this season but as a #7 or #8 seed, does mgmt try to do anything to improve the team or are they satisfied with a playoff appearance? If it is the latter, then we might see a team like Portland in that it always makes the playoffs but never really goes anywhere. As much as it sucks to miss the playoffs, I think it would suck more to be like a Portland or the Jazz and make the playoffs every year but not ever win a title or better yet not even get out of the first round!

    So, what is needed then? As I eluded earlier, we must get a ballhandler/playmaker. If we are indeed going to keep Francis, we must utilize his strengths and quit exposing his weaknessess. I feel that if we continue to insist on him playing the 1, then we need to deal him while we can get something good in return. At any rate, we definitely need someone like a Lamar Odom or a taller Eric Snow whose primary job is to set up the offense and be the top defender or better yet a Mario Elie type that can actually handle the ball and dish the rock.

    The next thing is that we need someone who is going to be tough under the boards to help Yao with rebounding (like Cato) BUT can torch opposing teams on the low block if they pay too much attention to Yao or Francis. For some reason, a player like Horace Grant comes to mind. This guy should be more focused on rebounding and defense, but should be able to score double figures if he is left alone. In other words, a combination of Cato and Mo Taylor, lol, would be perfect here.

    Although Jimmy Jackson is okay and somewhat adequate, it might be good to have a consistent outside threat at the 3. I was hoping that guy would be Nachbar, but so far it hasn't happened yet. That is why I am hoping they don't deal Boki because I can see him becoming that type of player. I guess JJ will have to get us by for now until Boki is ready. If he is unable to become ready, then we need to find someone else to fill that role.

    Finally, for the love of God, we need to find a solid backup PG. I think almost anyone out there is better than Moochie Norris, but we still need to address that. Unfortunately, until we can unload him and his contract, we may not ever be able to really address this issue. Of course, we can always bury him on the bench as the 12th man, but it wouldn't make much sense to be paying him all that money to just sit there and rack up 60 or so "DNP-CD"s a season. But it has been done; it is just a matter of finding the right one and the money to sign him.

    In summary, I do not see the Rockets winning a title with Steve as the point; however, I do think that we can win a title with him on the team BUT as a SG. Of course, we need to concentrate on reaching the playoffs first before we start dreaming about titles. Yet, those of us who were Rocket fans when Hakeem led us to back-to-back titles still have that championship taste in our mouths and would like to have it again. And yes, (Almu;) ) we can be and are an impatient bunch, but as fans, it is always in the back of your mind - is this team one that can win a title?
     
  2. ricerocket

    ricerocket Member

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  3. brentdapmp

    brentdapmp Member

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    Francis is not a leader. He is a showman who must get his or die trying. There is no way in hell he could LEAD a team to a championship.
     
  4. A-Train

    A-Train Member

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    Don't get your panties in a wad, Manny. I think Steve will get traded, but not until the offseason...(despite Jeff's secret conversations with Rockets management. :))
     
  5. ivanyy2000

    ivanyy2000 Member

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    As a rookie: Raul Lopez yesterday
    16pts 9 Asts 3 TOs

    Meanwhile Steve Francis:

    19pts 4Asts 3TOs

    You tell me.

    By the way, the scene that Francis tried to take the last shot with 2.6 secs left is embarrassing but funny. Not only didn't he have a shot off, but also made another turnover with walk, left 0.8sec and gave Jazz the chance for last shot. That showed how poor a decision maker he is.
     
  6. jmz

    jmz Member

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    What do you mean get us a championship...he can't get us to the playoffs!!!!
     
  7. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Francis is not only the worst point guard in the league but quite possibly pees sitting down.
     
  8. Deuce Rings

    Deuce Rings Member

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  9. Deuce Rings

    Deuce Rings Member

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    Actually, if the NBA follows its current trend, all young point guards entering the NBA will play non-fundamental point guard like Francis. In that case, someone would have to win, but by that time I will have long stopped watching the NBA. It's getting darn near unwatchable now and I absolutely love the game of basketball. I'm a Rockets fanatic so I'll probably keep watching them, but I find it very hard to sit through an entire NBA game in which the Rockets are not playing.
     
  10. ricerocket

    ricerocket Member

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    Duece, I feel your pain. It is almost unbearable. Watch NO and Baron Davis. He's probably the best worst point guard right now...
     
  11. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    So do any of you guys want to address the points of keeping Francis if he is going to play the 2?

    Can we win a title with him as our shooting guard??

    What are your suggestions on improving the team?? Are they similar to the ones I suggested or different??
     
  12. ricerocket

    ricerocket Member

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    We aren't trying to go that route obviously. If we were we would have dumped CAT a long time ago for a Andre Miller or such.
     
  13. vcchlw

    vcchlw Member

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    Exactly. As a Rox fan, we should make some realistic thoughts.
     
  14. ruddy5

    ruddy5 Member

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    is francis out of gas just in his 5 season ?

    is francis out of gas just in his 5 season ? guys did you saw francis traveling in the last second of the last night game?????????? that was just ugly.......all of this,is going to last,until sf change his brain
     
  15. SuperKev

    SuperKev Member

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    Possibly they want to trade Mobley, Nachbar and a PF because this would possibly net them a good PF and allow them to move SF to the 2.

    To make the lineup something like this:
    1. Mooch or new accurate passing PG
    2. SF
    3. JJ or Pike
    4. Insert good PF
    5. Yao

    Could make for a much stronger team.
     
  16. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    I agree, but from reading with what Jeff said, it looks like we are going to have to learn to deal with Francis on the team. So, with that being said, we need to think realistically what is the best way to come up with a team to fit him (or so it seems).

    rice,

    I understand but you don't think that there is a chance of rethinking that route?? At the time, it could be that nothing was going to change because bringing in a new coach was enough change as it is. However, after one season of Van Gundy, if Steve still shows that he really can't be an effective PG, do you not think that we would go out and get someone who could be an effective point?

    You know, things change and not everything is etched in stone...
     
  17. shawn786

    shawn786 Member

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    Not a chance, IMO.
     
  18. ricerocket

    ricerocket Member

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    JVG did say that there may be more changes. He also said something to the effect that there doesn't need to be a "true" point guard in the NBA these days. What he forgot is that he needs to hire an offensive minded assistant coach to help his anemic capabilities in that area.

    I do think a good PG would help. Maybe not a starter. But definetly someone who could command 6th man minutes. Mooch is trying hard, but the key word is trying...
     
  19. fa7999

    fa7999 Member

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    Someone please provide me with the url about Jeff's secret conversation with the Rockets insiders.
     
  20. rockergordon

    rockergordon Member

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    I'm gonna go out on a limb here and insert some politics... but I think it applies.

    When people write off President Bush as just some dumb@ss it annoys me. Personally I can't stand Bush's policies on almost everything, but I feel that just calling him dumb is a brainless thing to say.

    With Francis, I think he has been conditioned to do what he is doing. Even in college he scored a lot of points and didn't have that many assists. I don't think he is dumb, and I don't think you have to be the smartest person on earth to play Pro Ball, but it definitely takes a sharp mental awareness and strong intuitive skills. He has shown that (at times)

    So the question is: does Van Gundy rip Francis apart and rebuild him as a traditional point guard?

    I don't think you can do that in the NBA.

    So It looks like the answer is to surround him with the best complimentry players available.

    One thing We agree on is the need for a SOLID backup Point Guard. Someone like Mark Jackson... Maybe he could even show Francis a few tricks. Someone who could come in for 15 mpg and calm the Rockets down.
     

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