This isn't true at all, you should actually look up which services allow btc payments before making such statements.
the cost is incurred by the merchant in the form of a processing fee, and passed on in the form of higher prices and less $$ available for capital investment or higher wages 1.5-2% of every transaction, think about what eliminating that could mean and that doesn't even factor in the additional costs for fraud and chargebacks
Said it before, people jump on these r****ded forks, it would be easy money. Just gotta incorporate the Bitcoin name, something like Bitcoin Platinum.
Credit cards give you extenstive fraud protection. Bitcoin, if you're not willing to trust a middle-man, doesn't - if your bitcoin is stolen, there's not a lot you can do. I'm referring to the services that we've come to rely on that the middlemen banks provide.
Sure. My point is that a bitcoin-based VISA Debit Card doesn't eliminate that. There is still going to be a merchant processing fee there by whoever's providing the debit card services. Add on to that, you also have a bitcoin transaction fee and the risk of network congestion/etc (though that can likely be solved). The alternative to eliminating those costs is direct bitcoin transactions, but then you lose all the features that people like in their debit and credit cards.
I think you're confusing theft and fraud. Otherwise, you're absolutely right -- visa cards loaded with Bitcoin was a poor example by me. I said that because that is how it's currently being used -- obviously the bigger vision is to eliminate Visa and others from the process and reduce the transaction fees. The rest of your argument can be applied to every currency -- it only has value because someone (government) says it does. I don't know if Bitcoin or another cryptocurrency will ever gain that foot hold in the market -- but I also don't think it's farfetched for the reasons I outlined previously. There needs to be enough money in Bitcoin to allow the price to stabilize -- perhaps when the supply is maxed out? Regardless, #10KBitcoin -- what an accomplishment. I wish I would've paid attention to this thread when it started
I finally jumped in on Sunday and bought $1K LC and $500 Ether. Feels icky to buy in at all-time highs. Always late to the party!!
I think the issue you run into is that you have to give up the services that people value. A credit/debit card works because you have the protection and insurance of a financial institution backing it. They keep your money safe; they extend credit to you; they simplify transactions; etc. We take all that for granted, but it's value that they provide. With Bitcoin, have two options: 1. Inject it into a similar institution that gives you all those similar protections, but then those same costs will exist. 2. Do direct peer-to-peer transactions, but then suffer all the same disadvantages of working in cash People around the world have shown a clear preference for having all those protections, so the challenge for Bitcoin is to navigate that - what it offers theoretically is great, but do people actually want it? If you figure out how to create some card that can access your bitcoin wallet with no transaction fees (a debit card, for example), and there's no middleman protecting those transactions, then what if your card is stolen? You could theoretically go find a computer, access your private key, hurry up and move the funds to a new wallet, etc. But if you don't do that in time, it's similar to carrying around cash and losing your wallet, which people have moved away from for this exact reason - cards are much simpler and safer in most cases. The bank takes on a bunch of day-to-day risk for you. This is certainly true - but that government-centric approach also provides stability. The dollar goes up and down in value when thinking international exchange, but it doesn't change the costs of goods and services in the US on a day-to-day basis. So while US dollars may not serve as a good store of value in Europe, it does so very well in the US. Bitcoin changes value independently of the things you buy, which makes it a much riskier proposition to use as your currency. If your rent is paid in US Dollars, you want your salary to also be in US Dollars so you can budget properly. The few places that accept Bitcoin now are a perfect example of this - they only accept it and immediately exchange it for their local currency, because no business wants to hold onto it. This is the same as you'd see if you tried to buy things with gold or oil or any other commodity. A business might take it, but they just then exchange it into a normal currency. Bitcoin just holds far more properties similar to a commodity than a currency - that's not a bad thing. Gold has stood the test of time and maintained value. It just makes it more speculative than stable and gives it different use-cases.
Obviously the technology does not currently exist to determine how your stolen bitcoin debit card hypothetical would play out. Just playing along, I would imagine the card would only be linked to your wallet and not physically hold your private key on it (and perhaps a daily limit?). Or if it did hold the private key, it would be encrypted and not as easy as taking a picture of the front and back of a credit card as thieves do now. But that doesn't go into the issue of what happens if they spend $200 unauthorized before you can unlink, how do you recoup, how to get money back if you never receive goods/wrong good, etc. These are all legitimate questions that don't currently have answers, but those answers would/could/should evolve over time as/if it becomes more accepted. I agree regarding the 2017 utility use for Bitcoin as a currency. I don't want to agree to pay 1 Bitcoin a month for rent, only to have it go up by $10,000.00 three months later. Suddenly I went from around ~$9K/month in rent to $19K. The only point I'll make is I think you stated this too matter-of-fact: "The few places that accept Bitcoin now are a perfect example of this - they only accept it and immediately exchange it for their local currency, because no business wants to hold onto it" I disagree that is what the businesses who accept Bitcoin do. IMO, If you're willing to accept Bitcoin in 2017, it's generally because you believe in it as a store of value and think the price will rise. I think several businesses - maybe the majority - would not immediately exchange most of their bitcoin payments (have to pay the rent with some, right?!). To accept Bitcoin, then go login to an exchange, upload the bitcoin to your exchange wallet, trade it for USD (on very few exchanges- can't deposit Tether to bank accounts), and then withdraw from that exchange to your USD bank account is not exactly a quick process. Not to mention, the price could rise or fall by hundreds of dollars by the time you were able to convert it over. I would think a good businessman would hold a longer term view if he chooses to accept Bitcoin in 2017.
Ive been following your doubt throughout the thread. I share many of the same thoughts as yourself. I fully believe what is driving Bitcoin is greed. There are too many fundamental problems with Bitcoin to justify the value. Bitcoin will be another one of those bubbles that we all will look back on and wonder what we were thinking. However out of every great bubble comes a significant advancement. Here is a good example of the automotive industry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_automobile_manufacturers_of_the_United_States It resembles this list: https://coinmarketcap.com When and where the peak of Bitcoin is unknown. However other platforms such as Ethereum actually provide solutions that Bitcoin can not. Blockchain and tangle technology can solve many problems we have today. It will allow us to bypass much of the red tape found in inner global commerce. I really hope those who are 'investing' get out at the right time.
To clarify - there are payment processors that do all this for you. All the companies that accept Bitcoin use them - it's just like a VISA processor. The company has a price for the product - say $10. A processor converts that to bitcoin (generally at a slightly-below-market rate), charges the consumer, takes a fee, and then deposits the remaining cash into the merchant's account. Here's a list of some of these processors: https://www.bitcoin.com/merchant-solutions No major merchant actually accepts bitcoin and does the work on their end for it - they just accept it through a processor, alongside VISA, Paypal, and whatever else. That's also why it's not really any cheaper than credit/debit cards - there's still a middleman involved.
The Ethereum source code is complete trash and in its current form not anyhow feasible for actual large scale use in the future, you really should look up some of the concerns and problems that already have occurred. I understand that you have doubts regarding Bitcoin, but Ethereum is inherently faulty and only heavily backed because of political reasons. Also think you underestimate bitcoin development, many of the concerns you and major are raising can be easily addressed in future updates.
Not sure why you are using quotation marks here, bitcoin is a solid investment that will likely persist for years and is backed by big investors world-wide. Everyone here knows it will go down at some point and not pump forever, but that is true for every other investment in the world. You not believing in the tech or foreseeing a bubble doesn't mean it's not a solid investment mid-term.
https://hackernoon.com/blockchains-dont-scale-not-today-at-least-but-there-s-hope-2cb43946551a ** Flashbacks to database transaction theory. **
I recommend looking up the difference between blockchain and bitcoin. Don't value bitcoin as if it is the blockchain.
