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Jack Ramsay ranks Steve/Cat only behind Bryant/Payton and Nash/Finley

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by yipengzhao, Dec 2, 2003.

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  1. yipengzhao

    yipengzhao Member

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    Dr. Jack Ramsay, who I have a lot of respect for, ranked the top five backcourts in the league as follows:

    Lakers: Payton/Bryant
    Dallas: Nash/Finley
    Houston: Francis/Mobley
    Detroit: Billups/Hamilton
    NO: Davis/Wesley

    Agree? Disagree?

    I think talent wise it's right on. But performance wise? But look at the other pairs, they all have their liabilities too. (except the top two)

    http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=4392
     
    #1 yipengzhao, Dec 2, 2003
  2. SmeggySmeg

    SmeggySmeg Member

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    other of note i don't mind

    Kidd and anyone (kittles)
    Parker and Manu
    Bibby and Christie
    Barry and Murray (or Allen)
     
    #2 SmeggySmeg, Dec 2, 2003
  3. AMS

    AMS Member

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    isn't RJ playin SG in NJuisey
     
    #3 AMS, Dec 2, 2003
  4. yipengzhao

    yipengzhao Member

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    No I think it's kittles at the 2 and RJ at the 3. Kittle... if not for that one injury would be very very good.
     
    #4 yipengzhao, Dec 2, 2003
  5. KeepKenny

    KeepKenny Member

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    funny how most of the time everyone calls Ramsey senile, but when he compliments our players, he's suddenly repected. If our backcourt is so great, then we should be playing better, especially since we have the 2nd best center in the league.
     
    #5 KeepKenny, Dec 3, 2003
  6. yipengzhao

    yipengzhao Member

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    I'm certainly not a huge fan of our backcourt, but Jack Ramsay knows what he's talking about. Based on talent, our backcourt IS top five.
     
    #6 yipengzhao, Dec 3, 2003
  7. Uprising

    Uprising Member

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    Man, I miss the "Dynamic Duo" we had back when Zone Defense was not allowed.
     
    #7 Uprising, Dec 3, 2003
  8. GRAYsquirrel

    GRAYsquirrel Member

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    Our backcourt is definitely good, but not great. Our center is really good. But not great. Our frontcourt is weak however, and although that's not the primary reason for our recent bout of suckhood, that's our weakest position, especially the power spot. Improvement in that area, and our guards growing brains, coupled with our center growing balls, would make us a better team, rather than on the fence between good and good sometimes.
     
    #8 GRAYsquirrel, Dec 3, 2003
  9. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

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    I would put both Detroit and New Orleans above us. I would also possibly rank the Sixers, with AI and anyone above us...the same with New Jersey and Sacramento. One would think Minnesota would be right up there talent wise with Cassel and Sprewell, but they aren't doing great, either.

    So my order would be

    Dallas
    Lakers
    Detroit
    New Orleans
    Sacramento
    New Jersey
    Houston
    Philadelphia
    Minnesota
     
    #9 JayZ750, Dec 3, 2003
  10. yipengzhao

    yipengzhao Member

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    I can't really argue conclusively against anything except your ranking Sacto in front of Houston. Bibby -- one of the most overrated players in the league. Doug Cristie -- all D, no finish. Their team and chemistry is amazing, but take their backcourt as a module and they are not as good.

    I'm of the mind that if we swapped ours for theirs, our record wouldn't be any better. But you never know.

    Here's a hypothetical question, that's completely different from the thread: put all these backcourts in a 2 on 2 tournament, how will they rank? haha
     
    #10 yipengzhao, Dec 3, 2003
  11. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

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    I think if you swap our for theirs, we get better and they get worse. Team chemistry is a funny thing. The ball is in the hands of you backcourt players such a large % of the time, regardless of how good they are, that they essentially control the tempo of the game from your team's perspective. Bibby may be slightly overrated, but he's smart, as is Christie. And lock-down solid backcourt defense one of the best things you can have in at least on of your defensive players. You put Bibby and Christie on the Rockets I think you have a totally different, better team. Put Francis and Mobley on the Kings, I think you still have a damn good team, but I don't see how they improve at all.
     
    #11 JayZ750, Dec 3, 2003
  12. yipengzhao

    yipengzhao Member

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    I agree with your points... but there would be a huge drop in PPG that chemistry may or may not make up for.
     
    #12 yipengzhao, Dec 3, 2003
  13. yipengzhao

    yipengzhao Member

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    Forgot to compliment you for great analysis :)

    I didn't think of some of the tandems you came up with. AI and Snow should really be up there. Cassell and Spree should be better than they are I agree... but I think Spree is somewhat remove from the dominant days, he remains one of my favorite players though.
     
    #13 yipengzhao, Dec 3, 2003
  14. Trader Dan

    Trader Dan Member

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    Dr J didn'nt list the back courts in any particular order.
     
    #14 Trader Dan, Dec 3, 2003
  15. Ownage

    Ownage Member

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    You forget this :

    bayern (salt lake city): Hi Dr J, do you think the Rockets will make it to the playoffs this season, yes or no? and why?

    Dr. Jack Ramsay: I think they will...mostly because of their team defense, explosive backcourt, and the big Yao in the middle.
     
    #15 Ownage, Dec 3, 2003
  16. Juugie

    Juugie Member

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    Olowokandi was the 2nd best center for a while and didn't lead the Clippers to anything.

    You can be the 2nd best center in the league and not even be a top 25 player.
     
    #16 Juugie, Dec 3, 2003
  17. kobo

    kobo Member

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    Our pair of backcourts is ranked in the top five. Both have been playing together for a few years and didn't even lead the Rockets to anything. Urgh....how many years? You just have to find every single opportunity to single out Yao and put him down. Stop bashing Yao, you Fancy lover.
     
    #17 kobo, Dec 3, 2003
  18. MFW2310

    MFW2310 Member

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    Lakers: Payton/Bryant winning record + playoffs
    Dallas: Nash/Finley winning record + playoffs
    Detroit: Billups/Hamilton winning record + playoffs
    NO: Davis/Wesley winning record + playoffs

    beginning to see the trend here?

    Kidd and anyone (kittles) winning record last year + finals
    Parker and Manu winning record + champs
    Bibby and Christie winning record + playoffs
    Barry and Murray (or Allen) winning record + playoffs this year

    Steve anc Cat Can you say overrated?
     
    #18 MFW2310, Dec 3, 2003
  19. Juugie

    Juugie Member

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    Once again, I did not bash Yao.

    People throw this 2nd best center in the league tag around like a badge of honor.

    The center position in this league SUCKS right now. That's a fact. Shaq is the best right now and there is no one that is even close at this point.

    That's like saying if the Kidd was the best point guard in the league and Moochie was the second best. Would that eliminate the fact that Moochie sucks? Maybe he just sucks less than the rest of the scrubs out there at the position.

    Also, I stand by the assertion that the 2nd best center in the legue could be considered by some people to not even be a top 20 player.

    Make a list:

    Shaq
    Kobe
    TMac
    Duncan
    Garnett
    Iverson
    Vince Carter
    Paul Pierce
    Webber
    LeBron
    Nowitzki
    Ben Wallace
    Jermaine O'Neal
    Karl Malone
    Pao Gasol
    Jason Kidd
    Kenyon Martin
    Baron Davis
    Marbury
    Amare
    Rasheed
    Zach Randolph
    Peja
    Rashard Lewis
    Elton Brand

    You or I may disagree with some of the people on that list, but you can logically see how someone could rate all of those players ahead of the 2nd best center in the league.
     
    #19 Juugie, Dec 3, 2003
  20. MFW2310

    MFW2310 Member

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    I would suggest you also list those people that ARE impressed by Yao being 2nd best center in the league. People are excited about what he can do in the future not what he can do now. When Yao is playing in his 5th year, not dominating, still making dumb mistakes AND not improving, I will gladly discuss with you who, where and why he should be traded for. I will say thanks for the memories, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

    And Amare, Gasol and Randolph over Yao, that is rich.
     
    #20 MFW2310, Dec 3, 2003
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