I posted this in the other thread, but was curious to see some direct responses. I aplogize if I'm violating some kind of posting/new thread ettiquette, though I clearly stated the intention of the thread in the title. What do you think of the proposed below? Houston trades: Maurice Taylor Steve Francis Moochie Norris Houston receives Ricky Davis Zydrunas Illgauskas Kevin Ollie Trade Accepted - Think it has to be after Dec. 15th due to Ollie recently signing a contract. Houston Lineup - Key Players: PG: Jim Jackson / Cuttino Mobley, Kevin Ollie SG: Jim Jackson / Cuttion Mobley, Eric Piatkowski SF: Ricky Davis, Bostjan Nachbar, Jim Jackson PF: Z. Ilgauskas / Yao Ming, Kelvin Cato C: Z. Ilgauskas / Yao Ming, Kelvin Cato It doesn't matter who starts at the PG/SG spot or the PF/SF spot. Continue to make changes later in the season/offseason as necessary. May not solve all of your offensive problems, especially with no true PG, but definitely makes you a better defensive team and if we're going to grind it out anyway, than that is a plus. And it makes you very very large in the frontcourt - 3 legitimate players to throw at Shaq / Duncan. Salary wise, Big Z has the biggest chunk of the salary you're taking on, and his contract is up this year, I think. Davis and Ollie both have another 4 years, but neither are getting paid more than they're worth. Moochie and Taylor certainly are. Davis is apparently a cancer, but you never know what a change of scenery might do. Cleveland does the deal for obvious reasons - Stever Francis & Lebron James - especially given the way Lebron likes to pass. Taylor, when healthy is a serviceable PF in the East, although at this point Boozer is probably the better option. They loss Ilgauskas, but were they going to resign him anyway? Were they ever going to get good anyway? Just my entry into the trade threads, especially for those looking to get rid of Steve and/or Mobley. This trade could easily be followed by a Cato/Mobley for [fill in the blank] plus filler and draft picks. What do you guys think?
looks like this trade only make cleveland better. Also Ricky Davis sucks....another player think he is all star. We have enough of those.
Kevin Ollie starts at point for us... watched in him Philly, he's not that good. Hits the occasional three though. The problem. Big Z -- black hole of ball. Ricky-ricky... he's crazy. They're both good, but don't fit in our system.
That trade is about 3 times as bad as the one the Bulls completed with Toronto. Its awful for us, only thing good is riding of Moochies contract but Ollie's isnt pretty either. We would be trading the Franchise for Illgauskas? please... we can do better than that. Id give Cleveland Mooch for Ricky Davis and thats about it.
Ricky Davis is a ball hog. He can't along with Silas. I don't see him getting along with Van Gundy. Zydrunas is a good player, but the Rockets don't need a center. I haven't seen or heard enough about Kevin Ollie to make an opinion on him. The Rockets also need to start worrying about taking on long-term contracts of mediocre players who don't have ability.
what of the rockets problems are solved with this trade? if people complain about not having a pure point guard, what do you think they are gonna say after this trade. Of course cleveland would do this trade. a backcourt of francis james is great. but the rockets do not get anything in return. i would never do this trade
Sorry to say, but this trade is REALLY bad. Francis is the best player in the deal by far. Ricky Davis is dumb, has no discipline, he's a ball hog and has never been a winner in the NBA. Ilgauskas is highly injury prone. The only good part of the deal would be swapping Moochie for Ollie, who has one of the best assist-to-turnover ratios in the NBA (but he doesn't do that much either, he kind of plays a no-risk game). This deal only helps Cleveland.
Trade CATO first. Don't think CATO is a qualified PF. He contributes nothing to scores. Also CATO cannot defend PFs who are jump shooters or good at penetrating. JJ is also a black hole at offensive end. Due to weakness of CATO and JJ, It is easy to win ROX if only YM or SF3 is freezed
I think you guys are underestimating Big Z. He is by no means a hall of famer, but he is a very big body and he has skills - very much in the same mold as Yao, and, as much as Yao can be a wimp sometimes, having two of those who could both play 30+ minutes a night is a good thing, especially when you're backup becomes Cato, who is a decent bigman in every aspect except scoring. The question with Ilgauskas is - Will he stay healthy? That is a question, but if he does I think he is certainly capable of the 16 points, 7 rebounds in 30 minutes per night he's gotten his whole career. Second, I think everyonei s discounting Ricky Davis. Is he a locker room cancer? Maybe. Is he really good on the basketball court? Definitely. I've actually watched his game and it is impressive. The guy is super athletic. He's shooting at a higher FG% clip than Francis. He rebounds at the same clip as Francis. He actually dishes out MORE ASSISTS than Francis (that's right, the ballhog that he is, he actually passes more...), plays comparable defense but is bigger, and has fewer turnovers. The only reason he scores fewer PGG (just barely) is because he doesn't jack up as many threes. Finally, I think you're overlooking the Ollie for Moochie switch value. Ollie's contract is bad, but Moochie's is terrible. Ollie is a bad player, but Moochie is a CBA 15 minute wonder who lucked into a fortune. And by no means does Ollie start. That role goes to Jackson and Mobley combined to get the ball up the court, get the plays and fast breaks started, etc. So, Francis is marginally better than Davis. Ilgauskas is significantly better than Taylor and his contract comes off the books sooner. And the Ollie for Moochie switch is a no brainer, imo. Don't see where this deal is so bad. Try and get Cleveland to throw in a first round draft pick with a whole bunch of restrictions for the next 5 years or so.
I think this is not a bad trade. Even if big Z doesn't work out, he will come off the cap soon and we could have a shot at a free agent signing at PF or PG. I am not a big Ricky Davis fan, but he gives you the same things as Steve. Kevin Ollie would keep us from getting killed every time our backup PG comes into the game. I think there are better trades out there, but this doesn't really hurt the Rox, especially if you can get an unprotected first rounder out of it.
If this is the best the Rockets can garner for Steve, I dont see any logical reason why you trade him. Ricky Davis (who is probably the most valuable in the deal) only duplicates the problems this team already has (ie. undisciplined play with zero savvy and intelligence). Also, Ilgauskas and Yao together in the frontcourt simply would not work. Cato and Yao get exposed a good bit by quicker 4s (esp ones that shoot from the perimeter)and this is a Kelvin Cato who is far more mobile than Ilgauskas. In addition, can you imagine the transition defense with Yao and Ilgauskas on the floor? Thought the Utah game was bad? Yikes! If your plan is to trade Steve Francis, talk to teams like Seattle and Milwaukee first. I want a savvy perimeter shooter who moves well w/o the ball and is a consistent perimeter threat ie (Ray Allen (when healthy) or Rashard Lewis from Seattle or Michael Redd from Milwaukee). Also, I would discuss Brent Barry or TJ Ford with these teams if they are looking for a larger move. The ultimate move would be if McGrady truly does plan to opt out after next season and the Magic realize they need to re-build (as opposed to having one good player and being in the cellar), I would have no problem discussing Steve Francis/Cuttino Mobley for Tracy McGrady. If your plan is to deal Steve Francis, you absolutely must get the appropriate talent around Yao, and not just deal him for the sake of trading.
First of all a team with Cuttino and Ricky Davis frightens me. That basically doubles the "spontaneously dumb" quotient on this team. Big Z is nothing but a big risk. If he's healthy, he's one of the best centers in the game (which isn't saying much I suppose), but he's had a history of being injury prone. Kevin Ollie. Blah.
Btw, if the Rockets really wanted Kevin Ollie (who I agree would be the ideal complement to our backcourt), they should have signed him this summer. They were mulling between Ollie and Pike according to published reports, but allegedly could not afford Ollie or some bs like that. Pike was not a bad signing, but this team absolutely needed a savvy ball handler who can manage the flow of the game, (ie Ollie, K Anderson or Jon Barry), and the team signed none of the three. Its great to have Pike, but whats the point if the team is full of ball hogs that have no clue how to spell 'ball movement'? If the team thought Moochie Norris was going to turn it around this season and become the savvy ball distributor they needed, then we are really in trouble.
No doubt! You guys call Francis and Mobley, Dumb and Dumber, well Mobley and Davis is Dumb and Dumberer.
Cleveland probably would be willing to give up more for Steve than most teams. With Lebron there to play point, Steve is finally able to play his natural 2-guard position. He would fit that team perfectly. I would think the Rockets could get more from the Cavs. Maybe they can somehow pry Carlos Boozer away. Boozer would be exactly what the Rockets need at the 4. A PJ Brown-type power forward that can get 13 points and 11 rebounds a game. The Rockets could send Illgauskas to some 3rd team in need of a center for a solid point guard. Something like Z to Utah for Lopez (or Arroyo) and Ostertag.
Another thing. While it's true Davis is dumb. It's better to have a dumb small forward than to have a not-so-bright starting point guard and an idiot back-up point guard.
lol Cleveland would be awesome if this trade was done... Ricky Davis. I like him because he's a good player although he's pyscho. I don't think he's done anything bad outside of the NBA.. Ilgauskas? How the hell are we gonna guard Kevin Garnett and Kirilenko and Nowitzki and all the teams with fast big men? Ollie is an improvement over Moochie though. I don't think we're that desperate to make a trade. I hope not..if they add Lebron..I'd accept.
Good points all around, but as someone said below, I think a dumb Ricky Davis and a slow Ilguaskas is better than a dumb Steve Francis and a slow Kelvin Cato. Still, your points are good assuming we can get better for Steve. McGrady for Francis and Mobley - what person on the planet wouldn't do that deal?? Would Orlando do it though, even if they're desperate? Who knows.
The McGrady one is highly unlikely; I should have clarified that the odds of it are slim even with Orlando's current situation and the impending opt out of McGrady. However, the point I was trying to make is that you dont just deal Francis for the sake of it. You yourself just stated that Ricky Davis is dumb and Ilgauskas is slow; why deal one of your top 2 players and STILL not solve your problems? If you can move Francis and get players that fill holes and fit around Yao then go for it, if not then dont rush into some trade.
