I have seen enough !! (The Francis and Mobley are dumb thread)

The past two games have just been so painfully ugly to watch. I don’t know if sending Mobley to the bench is the answer or trading Steve. But a few changes need to be made. This team has shown zero chemistry on offense.

 

Hahaha!!!!!! well said!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Someone has said this before, If we can get a solid backup PG, this season is still a success. Steve Francis is untouchable for trade IMHO. And trade him for Nash etc is ridiculous, it's like those threads in the dallas forumn wishing Jamison for Ben Wallace.

 

Maybe we could get someone like Jason Williams from the Grizz and move Francis to the 2. We just need a good passer

 

Edit: I don't mean Francis is bad, it's just the other players' role for their team is too important.

We shouldn't give up on Francis after 14 games. Bringing in a backup PG to take some heat and let Francis slowly come around. Hopefully in playoff time Francis will share clutch time with the backup and next year he can handle on his own.

The management is committed with Francis, much like they did with Eddie Griffen. Only Mobley will be traded.

 

I hate to use the word stupid, and wouldn't want to bash. But I did watch the game, until the last thirty seconds when I knew the Rockets would lose.

It certainly is damn frustrating. And it's really tempting to use stupid and dumb in the same sentence with Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley.

That 'Steve Fancy and Cuttinover Mobley' by DaDakota was really funny. At least today that helped bear the loss a little. Losing to Utah without Stockton and Malone is pretty tough, considering the Rockets are off to a good start.

Constructively, however, why don't they activate Mike Wilks from the injured list and see what the Rockets can do if he gets enough minutes. As much I'm biased too against M. Norris, maybe the Rockets could try playing him or Wilks more than Francis. Try something at the point guard position.

Watching two plays- when Francis didn't pass on a three on one fastbreak opportunity, and when he took a jumpshot when he could have passed - they really make me question whether its worth watching Rockets games.

I've been watching Rockets games ever since Ralph Sampson and Allan Leavell. I thought then that, boy, the rockets sure could use better guards.

I want to watch Yao Ming more but having to watch Steve Fancy and Cuttinover Mobley at the same time makes me ask if its better to watch Phoenix Suns games or Milwaukee Bucks games instead.

What was the name of the point guard for the LA Sparks? Maybe the Rockets could trade with the WNBA for someone who actually passes.

Steve Fancy.....That's a really good nickname....Steve Fancy

 

A backup PG does good to both Francis and Yao, at this rate, Yao is not learning much in crunch time either.

 

I agree SF is the one to go (see below).

True on the Marbury part, he has had much superior assists and A/TOs than Francis goping back when Marbury was 20 years old. There have always been qualities in Marbury Francis just doesn't have.

FINAL THOUGHTS:

The best thing is to play out this year and then trade Francis.. We are not going for a title this year anyway. The problem with trading him now is he is a BYC player until mid-next summer, probably too hard to work a deal.

Why trade Francis over Mobley? Couple of reasons, a) Francis is an extremely destructive player when his shots aren't falling. He doesn't play defense, he doesn't scrap, he doesn't focus on getting 15 assists the way other PGs who are struggling offensively find a way to help their team. Mobley is streaky, and granted when he is "on" he still isn't the unguardable force SF is, but Mobley does do other things like play hard defense, shoot high % FT, scrap, and defer to other players (SF, Yao) when struggling. b) SF is still one of the 12 or 15 most valuable trade commodities in the league. If you have a sucky team all you have to do to be respectable is trade for Steve Francis and surround him with guys to play defense and crash the boards. Steve is a terrific talent in the 1 on 1 game, I just don't think his team impact will ever be comparable to his individual talent. It may not be his fault either, maybe he just isn't basketball smart or maybe it is just too hard to change bad habits from bad coaches when you are 25. There should be no hard feelings towards him from Rocket fans.

Francis need not be traded for a PG It is not like you have to have to have a Nash or Kidd maestro to win. In fact the last PGs to win the titles have been Parker, Fisher, Fisher, Fisher, AJ, Harper..... Nothing special or maestro-like in any of them. What you need is a PG who can play within the confines of our offense, knock down open jumpers and play good defense. Francis's talent is wasted in the confines of our offense yet Francis's style of offense even more limits the potential of a team with Yao Ming--it is just a bad fit for both parties--again no hard feelings.

Instead of thinking trade Francis for a PG, think trade Francis for the best fitting player--be it a 1, 2/3, strait 3 or 4,. It could be a Brand, J. Oneal (although his stock may be too high now with Indy playing so well), or a disgruntled Pierce or McGrady if we are really lucky. We could even take some risks for a younger guy or guys with principals like Carmello, Butler or Wade + Grant, Crawford + Chandler, or Jason Terry + more. Maybe to the new Charlotte team if they have the right drafts picks or primcipals to offer in return--again he could get them respectable in a hurry and no doubt be a EC all-star for many years. Preferably I'd like Francis to be sent East, because you know he would want to kick our ass and I'd rather face a highly determined Francis only twice a year.

This is where I am at.

 

Francis is a dumb person. What he needs, is a brain transplant from any normal person. Find a hobo on the street and put him in Francis body and he will dominate.

Being dumb is fine, but I dont think anyone is dumb enough to not know how to listen. Francis obviously, just DONT WANT to listen.

 

Wow, I didn't know this. This will make Francis definatley movable if he will no longer be considered a BYC player. I think that we would still have the trade excemption also.

I agree that Francis should be the one that gets traded over Mobley. The main reason I feel this way is that Mobley is truely playing some sick D this season. He has been all over every single SG he has played this season and it almost makes up for his bad shot selection. Also, Mobley is a better value than Francis and we could get more in a trade with Francis.

We don't necessarily have to trade Francis for a PG in the offseason either. Charlie Ward and Brent Barry will be free agents and they both can easily step in and become a nice distributer of the basketball for this team.

The more likely scenario I see playing out is the Rockets acquiring a PF or SF from a strugling team that is desperate for a star player. The Bulls, Atlanta, and Washington come to mind. The question is if they would have enough talent to match the Rockets in a deal involving Francis. I'm sure something can be worked out since each of these teams will have top picks in next years draft.

DD, this thread is great. You're cracking me up.

 

Trade them both. Trade the Cat this year for Derek Anderson, or whatever else you can get on the market that plays smart and safe and can pass the ball. Cat is not a keeper at any price. Screw him.

Trade Fancy next year when he's not byc. You get a year to shake it out, and let Fancy prove himself.

Trade Cato now while his value is up. Trade Mo and Mooch if you can.

Surround Yao with strong, tall players that can pass, play d and shoot the ball. They are out there, just not on this team. Destroy all remenanants of the Rudy abomination. It is a horrible monster that will corrupt and kill all beauty.

 

Wow..this has gotten much longer. I also think Francis should go over Mobley now...I didn't mind that much when we lost to the Blazers or Mavericks or Raptors because they have more talent and we didn't play as a team and just made a few mistakes. But yesterday's game was just horrible because of mainly Steve...disappointing. I agree with most of the posts and Desert Scar too. Mobley and Francis cannot play successfully consistently together! One of them needs to be benched or moved or something. I want a point guard that can make shots, handle the ball and barely ever turn it over, who can pass, who can run an offense, and play defense...that's like the basics. I think Mike Wilks could do that but hes too small. I wonder why he doesn't play more...Mobley could do this too sortof. Our 2 and 3 spots are like interchangeable..I think we need to make a trade...

Moochie can still play 1 minute a game..Wilks is a good backup. Piatkowski is great with Yao if we can create plays where he is set up for an open 3...Jim Jackson is a good all around player..would be better if he made more shots. Padgett is a decent role player who hustles and can make a shot...as long as he just plays defense and makes open shots...Cato is just a rebounder and shotblocker and cleanup man. He could be more involved in the offense..but not like postup man. Taylor is sortof slow but is a good scorer. Yao can still improve more and become more dominant and develop. We have lots of talent..we just need to play as a team!

I think we need a decent point guard like Larry Hughes or Eric Snow or Darrell Armstrong..one who can make 3's with no ego! And it would not hurt to get a decent power forward who can rebound and block shots and also make an open jumper...Cato + Taylor.

 

Two words: Jerry Sloan

 

Yeah, that's the scary thing about trading Francis. But like another poster pointed out, it might take Steve hitting rock bottom or darn near it in order to finally understand that his style of play is not a consistently winning style of play. Unless he's benched or unloaded in a trade, Steve's confidence/selfishness/whatever you want to call it will probably continue and probably to the team's detriment. Marbury definitely emerged from the cocoon, Iverson might finally start be emerging, Francis...........if you keep giving him $90million and the "Franchise" nickname, what motivation is he going to have to emerge from the cocoon. Larry Brown took a proactive approach to changing Iverson. Marbury was traded twice. Is Van Gundy willing to kick Francis in the butt or is he willing to let Francis continue along the path he's traveled his first four seasons?

 

One thing that has been bothering me is the pick and Roll play. How many times Yao or JJ set a pick for Francis or Mobley and roll to a open spot. But.. they almost never get the roll...

Francis and Mobley simply just dribbled it away. THis is basket ball 101. I just don't get it. Even the kids on drive way know that play....

Can anyone explain it to me?

 

I've been defending these guys all summer, but it's getting harder and harder to do after watching yet another night of them dribbling through double teams, jacking up 20 footers with no one under the basket, making countless stupid turnovers et al.

I never thought I'd say this, but I'm starting to come over to the dark side (or good side depending on your perspective). Something has to be done. The offense looks just like it did last year. We still can't convert a freakin' 2 on 1 fast break. We are the only team in the league that can't seem to do that.

How many times have you seen someone set a pick for Francis and he just acts like it's not even there. If someone sets a pick, use it and go to the freakin' hole!! Unbelievable.

It might be time for a change...

 

I understand that the guards didn't play well last night, but I hope we don't try to point fingers at individuals for every loss. The fact is the Rockets (as a team) played like crap, we didn't win because we didn't deserve to.

Steve- turnovers, turnovers, turnovers, the crowd got to him and he played like crap.

Yao- couldn't hit a shot for his life, let the Jazz punk him in rebounds.

Cat- still took a lot of ill-advised shots, like always.

Cato- I'm so tired of seeing Cato elbow someone for the offensive foul, he get's it atleast twice a game, and please....no more turn-around jumpers.

JJ- didn't seem like he tried to get involved, missed some open shots too.

MoT- I know he wants to get back into the mix, but pass the freak'n ball.

Mooch- Honestly, Moochie Norris is the worst basketball player in the NBA.

Pike- Only one who played a decent game, waited his turn, did what he was suppose to, and was the only one who made shots.

 

I remember reading in the paper, when steve was a rookie, they were running some fastbreak drills in practice and Rudy was just praising Francis and the fact that he made no mistakes in any fastbreak they ran. Those bad habits probably started there...

 

Francis, Mobley are great players, but it is evident that they can not pass. I don't think they have the instincts to do it. A team this athletic without any fast break points is simply rediculous and inexcusable. Rockets definitely need a true point guard who can control the flow of the game. I am sure JVG realizes this and hopefully working on a solution.