..what was that play that the Rocks were running for most of the fourth quarter? Mobley looked like he would post-up, and then set a screen, and then KT would set a screen for Steve. I thought you might know this. ------------------ "GiddyUP!!!" Krammer from Seinfeld
Great spotting RocketRan5. Behad and I were talking about that very same thing in the stands. That is just 24 High with a pick for the picker. There is a slight option for Mobley in the low post, but that is more a decoy. The point is to make sure the pick on the 24 High pnr is effective. Teams often just smother the 24-High pick by blowing it off. They will simply ignore the pick and aggressively double Mobley or Francis allowing the picker to roll without a way to effectively get him the ball. What we saw in the 4th was Mobley coming out of the low block on the strong side with Francis and come out to the high post to pick for Mo (or Kenny) so that they could freely get over to make the 24 High pick for Francis. That is my take...
But, with our personnel, I wonder why we don't have Shandon play the role of post up guard? He has an excellent post up game for a guard, and that'd seem like a good way to get him at least involved at the offensive end. So, this is 24-high starting to evolve? I saw a lot more screens away from the ball this game, especially in the 2nd half. heyparty-Has anyone been keeping track of the amount of isos per game? Aren't they going down? ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure. [This message has been edited by NIKEstrad (edited March 18, 2001).]
NIKE, Yes...24-high is evolving out of necessity. The NBA was just smothering Mobley and Francis early in the season after Mobley crushed Indiana with it to win a late game, then Boston smothered him the next game for a big loss. Teams learned from those two games what to do and what not to do. Of course, Indiana forgot to watch their own tape when Francis and Mo' sized them up for the comeback. The key in the evolution is to make the picker effective even when defenses look to smother the dribbler while guarding the roller with a rotation man from the baseline. 24-High is the reason Mobley is becoming a star. Give the boy a pick! He'll kill ya in so many ways. NIKE, imo, there have been a lot more screens evolving all season. The timing to do that when any amount of purpose is often underrated. All players must be able to read each other and the defense. ISOs per game are definitely going down (except for Mo's, which remain steady). But that is a subjective assessment of mine. I'm hoping to talk Jonathan Feigan into asking Rudy that question, or to get jamcracker to count again. But jammie is too busy nowadays screaming during this playoff run. lol
jamcracker = the fastest man in the Compaq Center! On a full timeout, he can leave the stands, hit the bathroom, get two more drinks, and be back in his seat before the timeout is over. I was impressed! ------------------ Behad Sergeant at Arms of the Clutch BBS
IMO, 24 high is the best play the rockets have. I was under the impression that the decoy postup was part of the play, not an option, and that they just didn't use the decoy sometimes because the clock was down and it would take too long to set up. Has anybody noticed the new play they have? The one where Steve sets a pick at about the free throw line, then spins and looks for the lob? Seems like a pretty damn good play to me, they just haven't connected on it yet. ------------------
TPL and verse, I really don't know if that is 24-High. I choose to use the name, so it is easier to discuss. verse, Mobley does try to make that screen. Even if Duncan had to move a little bit around him, it makes Mo's pick much more effective, which makes Francis much more effective. The result is a pnr that runs just like 24-High, for sure. I tend to believe the Mobley low post is a decoy, or a very low priority option. He got the pass once when they fronted him. Note, Mobley is in the low block a lot early in sets. He generally always gets waved off. I have seen the "pick for the picker" come from Shandon as well. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited March 18, 2001).]
I thought I saw the ball go into Mobley in the post twice...one on a foul (by Derek Anderson, think his 6th?) and if I remember right the other was after a couple of passes that resulted in Cato dunking wide open under the bucket because TD was busy trying to guard Franchise. ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure.
if what you're saying is true about mobley setting that pick for motay... mobley needs to get on his freakin job! his picks were lazy and ineffective. if he were able to plant a decent pick, motay may be able to slide to fake the pick to francis up top and dive immediately to the hoop. just think... in the event that motay's man (in this case, duncan) follows, he has an EASY layup. if he cuts through the lane to meet him at the goal, another option opens up. mobley then cuts directly through the lane to the top of the key, with his man (at worst) trailing or (at best) getting hung up between motay and duncan. OH DAMN, I LOVE IT!!! go set a pick cat!
NIKEstrad, you're right. i do remember seeing that. i also remember those were the times where cat actually put some effort into sealing his man off and giving steve a hand target. still, i'd rather seehim setting a pick for the diving (or picking) motay. it increases the possibility of getting the opponent's big men in trouble, and also increases the number of "in the paint" shots motay would take. and that is always a plus.
Verse, The pick for Mo is not to get him open, but more to slow down his man so he can't trap Francis so easily on the pick and roll. ------------------
tpl, right. but why can't the 4 curl to the basket (if he got a good enough pick) as a changeup from the pick from the 4 to francis? all that's happening in that case is motay (4) is replacing mobley (2), except not on the block ... off a screen and dive. i'm not suggesting that they do it all the time, only that they do it to keep the defense off balance.
btw, what Verse is getting excited about is the classic beginnings of Bobby Knight Motion Offense...with a capital "M".
ISO plays are decreasing and Rudy has added a few wrinkles to his bread-n-butter play. What is the next adjustment that NBA defenses will do to counter this and what new wrinkle will Rudy have to come up with? Mango ------------------ Get it right or just don't do it! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain and ....
I dont know what play you are talking about. Heypartner can we see a flash diagram on it? Thanks ------------------ ~John~ If you make it idiot proof, they will make a better idiot.
That should read: "What is the next adjustment that NBA rules committee will do to counter this...?" It seems that the NBA is out to destroy the Rockets' offense. ------------------ This message has been brought to you by the "Hard-dose-of-reality" Virus. [This message has been edited by ZRB (edited March 18, 2001).]
Mango: there's quite a few options, but i'd probably look at a) doubling francis early - with a 4 - before the cat post develops -or- b) sending a man from the 3 to cover cat and sending cat's man to double steve problem is, there's solutions to both... sol. to a) the four is positioned up top and, thus an easy target to pass out of the double to. sol. to b) besides running the risk of an illegal defense there are timing and defensive rotation issues. this is why i love this game...the chess match. ------------------ Lt. Roastabotch reporting for duty!
I totally agree with you. I also wonder why the Houston Rockets does not use Shandon Anderson in the post. He is a big shooting guard who can easily overpower smaller guards. Anderson can also demand the double-team. Can you imagine the opposing teams leaving Cuttino Mobley, Maurice Taylor or Steve Francis open? If they do not double-team Anderson in the post, he will overpower the opposing guards. Anderson would give the Rockets another scoring options which would cause headaches for the opposing teams. ------------------
DJ, SA would be matched up against small fowards, the most athletic position. He wouldn't be matched up against guards. ------------------ "GiddyUP!!!" Krammer from Seinfeld
DJ: while i am not entirely opposed to 1 or 2 shandon post ups per game, i would not like to see any more than that. you have to weigh it out. how good is shandon's turnaround j? if you aren't convinced he can consistently hit it (and i'm not, since he usually overpowers his defender), you have to look at other questions, like how good are shandon's passing abilities? how good is shandon's vision strong side? how good is shandon's vision weak side? how aggressive is shandon on offense (scorer's mentality)? to me, the last question is the most important. shandon does not have a scorer's mentality AT ALL. in fact, i believe that when he refuses to even shoot the open jumper he hurts the rockets even more than his defense helps the rockets. why? because one man does not a defense make, but one man can an offense disrupt. shandon, IMO, would be best served in the long haul as a bench player who is a defensive specialist/post player for 10-15 minutes per game. gotta guy who's lighting you up? wanna punish him for 10 minutes and 4 fouls? bring in shandon. bring him off the bench...either ours or another teams....
