Musings behind the bench from the Raptors vs Rockets game

The problem I have is people calling out someone for lying in an attempt the avoid the truth. Was anyone here in the huddle that could have heard the plays and know what was said for sure? No. So nobody here can say whether this poster is lying or not. No facts and all speculations. What is fact is that we saw bonehead play after bonehead play.

Other interesting facts.

We have a new coach.
Our old coach was a good one.
We saw the same bonehead plays with either coach coaching.

The player making the bonehead plays has not changed.

Is it the coach?

I think not.

Either the player has to change (I keep crossing my fingers on this one).

Or we have to change players (not my first choice but a reality that may force its hand).

 

I don't know whether or not this is reflective of society...I hope not...but there are some terms which, more and more, I see thrown around way too casually in here; ban, lock, liar, stupid, etc.

It would seem to me that, on all of these, but in this case 'liar', it's not as if it's an even handed proposition...It seems to me that you'd better be pretty damned sure before going and saying someone's lying. Inferences or being able to interpret what a poster says as lying and being justified in so doing are not the same thing. I could deconstruct almost any lengthier post and find some kind of inconsistency...formulate some theory as to the poster being dishonest...but that's a mile from being convinced someone is, and even further from saying so.

If Poster A is saying X, and poster B is saying X is a lie, short of evidence, all of my sympathy is with poster A, and all of the burden of proof is on poster B. To point out what could have been a lie is far from proving one.


In general, the antagonistic, restrictive, and insulting tone which has increased in here is, I feel, best reflected in the increase in the use of the kinds of words I outlined earlier. As I said, while it's sad enough that it's happening here, it would be alot sadder if it's an accurate reflection of the climate in society.

 

I particpate in several sports chatrooms and I must say that this is one place where one supports individual players more than the team they all play for.

Maybe that is very reflective of our society. Too much "me" and not enough "us".

 

There may....or may not be.....plenty of old timers who immediately thought this guy was full of ****, but they're letting the new guys take on the responsibility of calling this guy out.

....just an opinion of course... [/B][/QUOTE]

That's real gutsy of you...Thanks for the advice anyway... [/B][/QUOTE]

Ahh.....I must not have communicated well. I wasn't dogging you (or anyone else) for calling this guy a liar. In fact, I was thinking that he was one as well. You had expressed surprise that so many of the guys who "had been here for years" were quick to believe this guy. I was simply explaining to you why these old timers might have tried to deconstruct his post rather than call him a liar.

I most certainly was not trying to diss you for calling him a liar. That would be very hypocritical of me as I have a history of being somewhat less than polite. For instance, I think the tone you've taken with me shows that you're a petulant little prick, and I have no reservations about pointing that out.

 

You're not very educated either. It would make you a hypocrite because you believe he is lying, not because you are impolite. Being impolite just "reflects" very positively on you and is a testimony to your ability to sustain an intelligent argument.

Oh yes, you are a gutsy one...talking crap on an internet BBS...

 

Ok, i've just been so intrigued by this thread that i just called my uncle in New York. He's a good friend of Jeff's (Van Gundy that is).

He said they talked about the game this morning and nothing of the sort of tells in this thread were said last night. As a matter of fact, on the last play of regulation, he told Steve, and i quote:
"Hold the ball to the last seconds. If someone's open inside dump it in, otherwise try to roll around a pick shoot it yourself"
Steve was therefore doing exactly what he was told to on that last play. Props to Steve for listening to his coach.

Now certainly, that is a conflicting report...from inside...

 

tales not "tells"

 

One point- I have gone to Rockets games out of town and walked up and bought a single ticket behind the bench and on the floor . So I know it can be done.

Point two - The account Transamerica provided sounds like the most likely truth. Van Gundy's reactions to the events certainly seemed to confirm that Steve's 'deer in the headlights play' astonished him.

I admit I was watching more football than basketball but everytime I flipped over I ended up screaming at Steve's stoopid play..failing to pass in to a wide open Yao...failing to pass off on fast breaks..failing to get a shot up with enough time on the clock so that your 7'6" center might get a tip-in or rebound.
AAAAAARGH!

So here's my statement: Steve is athletically gifted but he has a basketball IQ of about 50. If he cannot execute the instructions of the coach in crunch time he needs to sit. If he contunues to defy the coach he needs to be suspended for conduct detrimental to the team. Losing 3 games now to establish the identity of the Rockets as a disciplined team will pay dividends later.

 

Why in the world would you want to wait for the clock to run out when you are behind and the ball is in their end. Look inside, if that's not there, get the ball up on the rim and crash the boards.



( Iwould bet JVG can quote stats on last second game winners)

 

Who said it couldn't be done ? You did remember where you sat though once the game had ended ?

 

Can people stop quoting danjojo's BS? It totally defeats the purpose of the ignore feature.

 

You almost had me..until you threw in the Cuttino never making a pass comment..First off, he's a SF..its Steve's job to distribute the ball more..not Cat's. Remember..STEVE is the point guard..secondly, stop living in the past..Cat has clearly upped the anty on his game..I was once a Cat Hater..not any longer..if he can change his game..I should be mature enough to change my mind. He's still immature..but he's getting better..at least, there isn't DOCUMENTATION that he's buffing the new system like STEVE IS!!

CHECK IT: Although he is the SHOOTING GUARD..he averages less points than Steve but has a higher field goal percentage. His three point percentage is in the top FIVE in the league. His assist percentage is 3.1..Steve's assist IS NOT MUCH better at 4.6. FOUR POINT SIX? The other night, Mike Bibby had 11 assists in one half!! I appreciate and love your report..but I SEE IMPROVEMENT IN MOBLEY..I don't see it in Francis. His selfishness is TRULY SHOWING NOW.

 

Danjojo apparently is a mor*n

 

Coline Pine impersonator in the house? :>)

 

right.. the plan to not foul went awry, so they had to foul..

also, the plan to pass the ball didn't work out somehow (maybe the Raptors called 'no passes'), so Steve was forced to just stand there and wait before jacking up a 3.

Bottom line of this is that I think this team is a work in progress.. I never expected the players to become brilliant basketball strategists overnight, but if they're disregarding direct instructions this blatantly, we may be further behind where I thought we were.

 

Great post, Tranmerica34. Sounds just like we saw it. Keep posting! I think that things will get better and considering that things are not so bad right now.....this is alot of fun to experience! The growth of our team! No where to go but champions! I see it.

 

I didn't even see the Phoenix game, but as soon as I read the original post in this thread I thought to myself 'what about "THE ASSIST" in the Phoenix game?' That pass got talked about on this BBS enough for people not to beg for 'one assist please'

 

And we could all "keep posting" things that are play by play accounts of "just like we saw it" on TV with made up stuff to make it seem more important to read.

I'm not calling it out and out deciet... I'm calling it "fictionalizing."

You're a budding young writer, Tranmerica34, but we like the straight up facts in here. "Straight up" meaning, with evidence, quotes that have links... or if it was a live game "I was there" moment - give us pics or scan in your ticket stub and let us see it.

Your "I'm driving to Philly..." statement was a bit too much for me too... in your other thread you said "after I flew to D.C." that you drove to Philly from there... seems you would've mentioned the commute by plane in here first, or said "I'm driving to Philly from D.C. (flying there for business)..."

BTW - I'm posting my opinion in this thread after the second (Philly account) thread was read as well... too many inconsistencies, lack of proof, and shaky statements about factual actually existant seating charts... it don't all add up, unless you've got a good quote memory, and bad attention to other details - all while drinking one too many at the game.

If I'm wrong, again, I'm sorry (as stated in the newer thread), but I just don't think it's a totally believable scenario.

I've been wrong before, and looking the part of a donkey's rear won't be new to me if I end up in that column because somehow you produce proof you in fact were there... just don't expect much more than a "Well, good for you." if you prove our skepticism wrong.

And if we wanted to, we could choose to believe JFK was shot by a lone gunman. And that Tupac is alive, hangin' out with Elvis in Mexico.

 

Fiction is what it is at best...

He's given one inexistant seat in Toronto and the seat he had to the Philly game is on the opposite side of the bench...but apparently i'm the moron for not believing this garbage...

 

Regarding all the Steve and Cat bashing. True, they are largely in it for the glory and occasionally make bonehead decisions because of that. But off balance 3's that do go down and win the game makes commentators rave, TNT do awesome video promos, elevates the spirit of the team, sells tickets, and do wonders for video game sales.

True, this is a game of strategy and a team sport and our guards don't always play by the sane instruction of the coach but fans like to see show boating and close games with spectacular shots to finish.

Although Van Gundy is a wise coach, his X's and O's will never sell the sport like Steve and Cat's entertaining crossovers, impossible jumpers, and high flying dunks.

Van Gundy's influence will sink in eventually and hopefully we'll have all that showtime mixed in with a little rational thought and strategy to take the Rox back to the finals.

Give it time and enjoy the show.