[2017 NBA Finals] Golden State Warriors vs. Cleveland Cavaliers

So basically, your saying KD's on Lebron's level. The differencial gap in production should be bigger if Lebron's truly the best player in NBA history. So if Lebron's playing the best basketball we've seen him play, but KD's STILL outplaying him, then technically (using new fan era standards) KD should be in consideration for GOAT if GS wins this series. Correct? Because let's not act like you cared about roster talent when Lebron's Heat or current Cleveland team was beating up on the likes of Toronto or the Washington Wizards. Performance wise KD's killing your king

 

The 90s are over.

You literally take turns ******** on everything and everyone that has a chance at invalidating your irrational 90s nostalgia bullshit.

It's incredibly pathetic and there are multiple members who do this.

 

You seem to have this unnatural hate towards LeBron, whereas everyone in this thread is pretty neutral. So I'm not sure where that hate stems from, but ok.

You also seem to think that being in the discussion for GOAT means that LeBron should completely better than his competition in all aspects of the game. LeBron does a lot of things better than KD, but he is not a better scorer than Durant. Just like Jordan wasn't the absolute best-of-the-best statistical juggernaut in all the numerical categories of a player, LeBron also doesn't have to be.

So let's look at why the Warriors are outplaying the Cavs. Could it be that Kyrie and Love have been inconsistent? Yes. Could it be that Durant is playing next to an MVP, who actually has shown up in this series, compared to Kyrie and Love? Yes. Could it be that Klay Thompson finally woke up? Yes. Could it be that Draymond Green, even with foul trouble, is every bit the defender he's advertised to be? Yes.

Let's look at why Durant is outplaying LeBron. Could it be all of the reasons listed in the aforementioned paragraph? Yes. Could it be that, because of the threats that Thompson and Curry are, that players can't help off them? Yes.

Love gets stuffed by Durant and stymied by Green. Love is relegated to a 3pt shooter that anyone on GS's regular rotation, sans McGee, can defend. Done. Kyrie is stymied by Thompson. Done. That's 2 of Cleveland's big 3 taken out by 2-3 players. And when these players are not tired because they did their jobs, they can then go help on LeBron.

On the other end: Curry gets stymied by...no one. Maybe LeBron. Thompson gets stymied by...no one. Maybe LeBron. Green hasn't been a great offensive player, but he doesn't need to be. Durant gets stymied by...no one. Not even LeBron, because he's too busy trying to make up the offensive side of the board because Kyrie and Love are either inconsistent or haven't shown up.


tl;dr? Durant's team does everything. Defends Cleveland's big 3. Shoots the 3. Hustles. Not saying Durant isn't a good defensive player, but he has the energy to play both sides of the ball, so he's fresh. LeBron HAS to be transcendent on offense AND has to defend one of GS's big 3 offensive weapons well, in order for Cleveland to even have a chance at keeping the game close. Not winning, mind you - keeping the game close.

Where are JR Smith and Korver's 3s? Where is Frye's 3pt shot? CLE was regarded as one of the better 3pt shooting teams, yet that's a strength that hasn't shown up yet. Meanwhile, McCaw is making 3s for GS. Thompson has woken up.

Finally, there's no shame at not being able to defend the 2nd player in the league, well. Again, LeBron isn't the best defender in the league. That honor goes to Leonard or Green. I would argue that it would have been difficult for Jordan/Pippen to defend a Kobe or a prime McGrady, if they ever played.

Durant isn't the 5'9'' IT2. Durant isn't Paul George. Durant isn't Demar DeRozan. Durant is an MVP, 4 time scoring champ, and on some nights, showcases that he can be considered the best player in the league.

 

thanks, That was enlightening

 

Don't perpetrate this lie lots of people are believing. We the Rockets fans should know better. We OWNED the Bulls.

Jordan came back in top form during the 95 playoffs. It's not our fault that they could not beat Orlando. Even if had won that series, we would still be good enough to beat them.

 

he's not a rockets fan tho....

 

I mean....if LeBron had the most scoring titles (10), then Durant wouldn't be a 4 time scoring champ..

Jordan was scoring champ every year he played except his 2nd year when he was out most of the year(Alex English) won, but dropping 63 on the Celtics in the playoffs probably means he would have won that scoring title as well. He also missed the entire 94 season where David Robinson edged Shaq for the scoring title. He played only 17 games in 95 when Shaq won but also lost to Shaq in the playoffs so there is that.

38-40 year old MJ locked up prime Vince Carter and Latrell Spreewell for 0 2nd half points in their matchups. Outplayed Paul Pierce (pts leader) and blocked his game winning attempt. I mean if that old of a Jordan was taking the young bucks to school and also defending them well 1-on-1, he'd be just fine if he was in middle of his prime against prime Kobe or T-Mac(they were sg and MJ was SF with Wizards so they rarely defended each other).

Lebron didn't just get outplayed though. KD was making him look like he had cement shoes on, and then Steph clowned him on top of that. KD just more hungry right now. There's nothing stopping LeBron from attacking the basket at will and bulldozing his way in for a layup or dunk, but it's just not who he is..at least not often enough and it's why he has a stain like the '11 Finals on his resume where JJ Barea outplayed him and this will probably be the next stain despite a probable triple double avg for the series where his fans love to show his stats without telling the full story.

*Side note: really hate how Steph gets away with being so cocky and takes a damn nap. If a blacker player like Harden or LeBron did that, the media would rip them apart for it. Steph supposed to have this clean church going light skinned creole thing for the media to eat up.

 

if jordan had more 30+ ppg scorers in the 90's he wouldn't have as many scoring titles either.

38-40 year old jordan didn't lead any teams to the playoffs so why even bring that up? random matchups in the regular season don't matter when we're talking about the playoffs.

and i've always held lebron 2011 finals over his head, so there you guys go against bringing up arguments that NOBODY ever made..


and i'm not even going to respond to the "blacker" comment because i don't know why you are so fixated on race.

 

And if Durant and these guys were playing without the rules of today, how many 30+ppg seasons would they have?

99-00 season (first major steps toward handchecking removal)

• Handchecking had been slowed down to a small degree in the late 90s, but not anywhere close to the massive change that was introduced starting in 99/00.
• "In the backcourt, there is no contact with hands and forearms by defenders. In the frontcourt, there is no contact with hands and forearms by defenders except below the free throw line extended in which case the defender may only use his forearm."
  • So by this point, handchecking is for all intents and purposed removed - "There is no contact with hands" and "the defender may only use his forearm." below the FT line extended.

00-01 season - new rules that further decreased amount of contact allowed by a defender

• "No contact with either hands or forearms by defenders except in the frontcourt below the free throw line extended in which case the defender may use his forearm only."
• "Neither the offensive player nor the defender will be allowed to dislodge or displace a player who has legally obtained a position"
• "Defender may not use his forearm, shoulder, hip or hand to reroute or hold-up an offensive player going from point A to Point B or one who is attempting to come around a legal screen set by another offensive player."
• "Slowing or impeding the progress of the screener by grabbing, clutching, holding “chucking” or “wrapping up” is prohibited."
• "On the weakside, defenders must remain on the weakside outside the paint unless (i) they are double-teaming the ball, (ii) picking up a free cutter or (iii) closely guarding an offensive player."

01-02 season - Addition of illegal defensive 3 seconds rules to weaken defenses even more.

• A new defensive three-second rule will prohibit a defensive player from remaining in the lane for more than three consecutive seconds without closely guarding an offensive player.
  • This rule makes it much easier to drive in the lane, because bigs can no longer camp out in the lane and deter drives to the basket like they did in the 80s and 90s

04-05 season

• "New rules were introduced to curtail hand-checking, clarify blocking fouls and call defensive three seconds to open up the game."

Notice that last part. nba.com itself has admitted that these rules opened up the game.

Much like the NFL going pass happy, the NBA changed rules to make the game more fun and relatable for fans and create more Jordans when the ratings started to drop significantly without him.

Durant and Lebron and everyone else today has played in this league that is meant to make it easier for them, and these rules changes all gave Kobe his highest scoring outputs, and T-Mac and anyone else you can think of from that time, even Iverson jumped up to 33ppg at 30 years old.

 

I am not even sure what CLE can do next year with all the contracts and GM Lebron getting his boys paid plus no picks

 

Durant still getting buckets even with those rules. Durant is a once in a generation scorer and that talent transcends any era.

90's also had a shorter 3 point line that would definitely benefit durant even more.

dominque wilkins had seasons where he scored 28+ ppg shooting under 30% from 3 but durant wouldn't be able to eat in the 90's? yeah right.

 

Hire Pop as the coach .

 

true Durant is as unique a player as there ever has been. He's always been right there with LeBron. Should be top 15 ever when he retires.

 

His leg got hit, the trainer was working on it.

 

Wonder how the Cavs would play if pop was their coach.

 

Not sure Lebron would like Pop replacing him as de facto head coach.

 

Pop's strategy is to teach his players to be coaches on the floor so I think it would work out quite well given Lebron's Bball IQ is through the roof. Saw an interview years back with Manu who said sometimes Pops would call a timeout and wouldn't say anything - he would just ask the team what they think they should do. Pops doesn't want dumb players waiting around for what coach tells them - he wants several floor generals out there at once and the team recognizing "in the game" how to address problems. That's why those teams are so good year in and year out.

 

Defense, especially transition defense, for the Cavs would be way better. The Cavs in transition are so disorganized and poor.

Pop is better at hiding offensive and defensive liabilities. He made Gasol look passable defensively. I think defensively he almost always gets the most out of his players.

Pop doesn't love going small so that may be an issue.

Offensively, I don't think too much would be different. I could see them going to Lebron in the post maybe a little more. Maybe some more motion before Lebron gets the ball to take some burden off of him.

 

And then Danty Jones threw him down with 3 minutes left. LOL. Clevaland going to try to play dirty again to win. Lebron tried to bait Draymond into getting thrown out in the 3rd quarter.