The truth ! The Rockets don't have what it takes.

heypartner: This is going to sound more hostile than it should, because I largely agree with you. I like Mobley, and want to keep him. I'm also satisfied with the progress we've made this year. I have no problem with his shot in this most recent game.

However, I don't like your intimation that only you and a select few can "see" the true game of basketball. yes, you probably are a better scout than anyone else on this board... but the obvious answer is not always wrong. If a player is missing last-shot after last-shot, mitigating circumstances become irrelevant. He's not performing, whatever the clever rationalizations and excuses. I don't think that Mobley necessary meets this criteria, but I do think your assault on the issue was a bit virulent and wrong.

Hehehe... I bet you'd be defending Mobley if he took a shot from 30 feet, one-handed and behind the back with Shaq in his face with 7 seconds remaining . (REALLY! It was the best shot possible at the time!). And you'd somehow convince 2/3rds of the board that you were right.

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Boston College - Big East -East Division Regular Season Champs

Worst to First in 2001!


[This message has been edited by haven (edited March 12, 2001).]

 

haven, I was playing on the quote of pooh ("I just don't see it"). You are reading too much into this if you are saying I'm intimating only people who agree with me are right.

I mean, I could argue that pooh was dissing all of us for not seeing what he sees in Francis as the playmaker. In fact, every person that says Francis is better clutchtime player is essentially saying they know more than Rudy and all of us.

"I just don't see it."

If they are going to continue saying that Rudy is wrong, Doc Rivers and Francis himself, then maybe they should expect some strong counter arguments.

Haven, am I really not allowed to have a very strong conviction about Mobley and Rudy that I must defer to stuff about Francis should be christened the 4th Q leader through some divine right.

My points about "pathetic" are choosing this game to make the argument that Mobley doesn't have it in the end. Not the argument itself, just the game that was chosen. Understand Haven, that game hurt, and I get to vent too. I like to vent at the Rudy bashers and Mobley bashers.

Many people say "you're wrong, I'm right." Why single me out has someone who should not say that? Especially since I really just try to defend Rudy's position in an onslaught of Rudy negativism, starting with people saying Mobley shouldn't get the ball.

Saying Mobley shouldn't get the ball, and should only be a weakside option is a very questionable comment about the ability of the Rocket's coaches to field their best opportunities. DaDakotas assualt on Rudy was more virulent and wrong.

 

I don't hate Mobley, I just hate his selfish style of basketball, it is NOT conducive to team wins, or going deep in the playoffs.

I really can't believe this. Mobley's style is not conducive to winning?!? OUTRAGEOUS.

Do you think Cat wants to win?
Do you think Rudy wants to win?
Do you think Cat would change his style if Rudy told him to?

Is Rudy wrong for not changing Cat's style or benching him?

There is nothing Cuttino wants more than a win. There is nothing Rudy wants more than a win.

Saying that "his selfish style of basketball, it is NOT conducive to team wins" is outrageous. What are you implying?

1. Cat would rather lose than change his style?
2. Rudy would rather lose than get Cat to change?
3. Cat won't listen to Rudy?
4. Rudy is all wrong about NBA ball?

 

Don't call the Rockets a young team. Aside from a few defensive problems, they do not play like a young team. There is only one player on the roster who does play young, and his name is Cuttino Mobley. The way Rudy has been coaching lately, I'd say he is coaching young as well.

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Re-elect President Gore!

 

"If you don't agree that Cuttino is selfish, then look at his assists per game, as a starting 2 guard...and don't give me that SHOOTING guard crap, because that is pure ignorance."

How come you can see this, DaDakota, but Cat and Rudy can't?

Wouldn't Rudy see something like this? Wouldn't Rudy tell Cat to pass more if Rudy thought it was a problem?

Is Rudy blind? Is Cat not listening to Rudy?

 

test

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I know the bulls suck

 

And is Francis wrong when he says that Mobley is the team's go-to guy?

Do you think Kidd is the leader of Phoenix, or Marion? Marion got them back in the game with ISOs. Kidd ran the last play with 7 seconds, sure, but if you argument is solely about the last play, then Mobley ran a great one...in the circle finger roll getting 3 guys in the air thus Mo' got prime rebound position.

Mo' missed the damn rebound for the win. And Walt's wrist was grabbed.

DaDakota, my point is you missed this one. This game is a terrible example for you to pull as a reason Mobley should take a back seat. On the contrary, it is a much better reason why Mobley is the playmaker in the 4th. Marion and Mobley got the ball in the end, because each had a mismatch. Francis and Kidd may be the leaders, but neither coach thought their playmaking was better than the scorers in mismatches.

This was not a good example. You are reaching, and really just showing me that you agree with the Milwaukee announcers who say this is "garbage basketball". Find a better example next time.


[This message has been edited by heypartner (edited March 12, 2001).]

 

Does anyone remember that Cat didn't even play in this game? I remember after that game ppl were praising Cat saying how they now realize how important he is to the team.

It's obvious Cat is important to this team, I don't think he should have the ball at the end of the game though. It should be Steve's ball, but to blame Cat is just plain stupid.

If it wasn't for Cat we would have lost this game by alot more then 2 points. If it wasn't for Cat we wouldn't have won these last 3 games.

The only problem I see with his game is he gets alot of his points from the line. He drives inside and gets hacked. That might work for the first 3 and a half quarters but those calls won't be made in the final minutes of the game. That's playoff officiating, the refs let the players play.

On another note, am i the only one that's kind of bothered by the amount of posts and threads that are created after the rockets lose? Where the hell are you people when the Rockets win? It's beyond annoying to see everyone say the same crap over and over in multiple threads.

RUDY SUCKS!!!
CAT SUCKS!!!
ISO SUCKS!!!!
THOSE PAJAMAS SUCK!!!

Get a grip, it's just one game.

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I agree with Heypartner on this. The game was not lost by Mobes or any decision that Rudy T made. I thought there was a good game plan and the team fought their butts off.

As a coach when you are planning for the last shot all you can do is give your player a good shot. The shots were definitely there and they were good shots. They did not fall, too bad time to move on to the next game.

The Rockets got some bad brakes in the way of calls from the refs and some shots that just did not fall in the end. Its too bad the Rockets had to play defense twice in the last few seconds of the game because of a blown call by a ref when they should have only had to play it once.

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The same stuff always happened when Charles was here.

People would b**** and complain about Charles 'wasting time' while he posted up his opposer and backed him in.

People would blame Charles and Rudy for not putting the ball in Dream's hands.

Even when Rudy said that having the ball in Charles' hands ALWAYS meant that there would be somewhere around a 60% chance of success, either from him making the basket or him assisting a basket.

Seems to me that Rudy has more experience in this game than all of us combined. He also has insight to the team. He knows what these guys are capable of. They track everything. I'm sure they have stats for every possible scenario.

Some of you act like Rudy intentionaly puts this team in a low-percentage situation. That's crazy talk.

The fact is: Mobley is clutch. You say the truth hurts so there you go.

Now, do i trust Rudy and his assistants or do i trust all you vitual-coach-wannabe-type people?! Do i trust our floor leader PG, who practices day in and day out with said coaches and said clutch player, or do i trust a bunch of dudes who base their opinions on the last few minutes of the previous game?! (Take no offense people, I just making a point!)

The fact is that HeyP is right. Rudy T is right. Steve Francis is right.

In all due respect DD, you are wrong. Mobley is NOT hindering this team's growth. He is helping it. He does indeed make better decision than he used to. Don't forget, he's a SG. They shoot the ball a lot. That's what they do.

Steve is an amazing talent. We will witness him as he becomes probably the best PG in the league. But he cannot break down a person or persons like Mobley can.

Just because Francis isn't the goto clutch guy right now doesn't mean that he will not be that guy at some other point. Steve has a lot to learn is doing so quite rapidly. Mobley is not holding him back. If anything, Mobley allows Stevie the luxury of getting better in other areas such as assists and rebounds.

When Mobley is pulling games out of his ass in the closing seconds of the playoffs, i don't expect to hear all of this b****ing and whining.

Mario is treated like a Rocket god at times and Mobley os getting all this flack?! Go figure.




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I agree with what DaDakota has said. I disagree with everything the Freak has said.

Seriously, Jack thinks he is better than what he is.

IF, IF, IF, IF Jack would pass just a LITTLE more and used his head A LITTLE MORE, we would have the best backcourt tandem in a long, long time. But the problem is that all summer, Jack bragged about having "the most lethal first step in the game" and he probably does. But the problem is that his talent is going to his head.

And if you think Laimbeer b****ed about every call after a missed shot, Jack is gaining fast. Jack never misses a shot on his own. He always thinks he is being fouled.

Anyway, if we can get Jack gone for front court help(major front court help) then I say do it. Otherwise, keep him. But, these ISO plays are killing me. Especially when Jack runs them. He pretty much guarantees that he is not passing the ball to anyone no matter how open they are. Three years and you would think he would learn to pass. I love it when he hits for 20 in a quarter but DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN, wheres the love, Jack?

Jack has to pass more to compliment Francis. Not the other way around.

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Sleepless in the Bronx
See Homepage for reason.

[This message has been edited by Almu (edited March 12, 2001).]

 

HP: Damn, I knew that would go over the wrong way. Sorry if I misunderstood your comments-sometimes you just see very... self-satisfied- in your knowledge of the game, and it almost comes off as if you assume that because you're more kowledgeable in general, only a lunatic wouldn't agree with you. I know that there's nothing mean-spirited in it.

Besides, as you pointed out... at least your defending Rudy and Mobley, who you believe are doing well. Certainly, your analysis and record backs you up...

...all I meant to say is that it's easy of falling into the trap of hyper-analyzing an event to take the blame away. I personally think you're right this time-Mobley really did the best he could under the circumstances. At the same time, I also feel DaDakota's frustration with the recent 4th quarter collapses.

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Boston College - Big East -East Division Regular Season Champs

Worst to First in 2001!

 

Heypartner,

Your posts are well thought out and intelligent, but you act as public defender for Cuttino far too often.

For the most part, all of what you say is right on about Mobley though. You just don't have to hyperbolize another players shortcomings to accentuate your points.

I'm not a big fan of percentages, so this 60 percent success rate is not a thing I would take into consideration in deciding the plays come crunch time. However, it was still a smart move to give the ball to Mobley, because he did have the mismatch. This doesn't take away from the fact that Rudy has gone to Cuttino when he has a great defender on him, and that is when we see the 40 percent of the time where the rockets are not successful come out.

You can not tell me one GOOD defensive player Mobley has taken it to this year. He scored the game winner against new york, but up to that point, he has shot the ball terribly.

My point is this, go to Mobley against weak defensive teams or when he has mismatches. He did have a mismatch last night, so I'm fine with that, but against good defensive teams he has been given the keys to the car and has crashed more times than not. If you really look at his big games, they have come against bad defensive teams(golden state, detroit).

I have a question,

Moochie is an awesome backup, but his ISO's are not a good fourth quarter offense, because they are predicated on him being able to get to the hole with one move, the head fake. Moochie should not be given the ball in crunch time. He should be in there for dribbling and passing purposes.

Also, why is it that Rudy reverts from what is working the whole game, and goes into an offense that screams "we're not trying to win, we're trying not to lose."? I'd like to see more Y zip to walt for a shot out top, or the backdoor play for Shandon a little more. At least in these scenarios, the possiblity of an offensive rebound is possible, as where it is not when Moochie or Cuttino isolate.

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I know the bulls suck

 

If you look at the video, Walt's arm was grabbed by Mobley, not Delk.

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"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."-
(Aldous Huxley)

 

Carlos, your post was right on the money. Rome was not built in a day. Some folks need to chill out and get some perspective of what this team has been able to accomplish this year with all the injuries and shuffling of line ups.

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Yeah think he was released on the weekend for a home visit and got himself lost and thus missed several days of his medication.

Several questions

• How did Mobleys lack of Clutchness cause the diseappearance of a double digit lead against the Mavs when he didn't even play?
• Do double digit leads disappear that quickly and due to one player, did i miss the 5 consecutive turnovers by Mobes in each of the suns/blazers/mavs games which they scored 10- 0 on to eat up the lead.
• What were the rest of the team doing while Mobes was singly handly blowing these large leads
• What happens to the lead if Mobes doesn't go off in the 4th, surely it just disappears quicker, and maybe we wouldn't have even had a shot at the game at the end.
• Basketball is played on both ends by all 5 players on the court and for me this is more the issue the Rockets have to improve to beat playoff quality
• Are these 3 teams that cameback against us fighting for the Lotto, maybe a contributing factor in the loss is they actually started playing well
• Why do games when we have double digit leads have to come down to Mobes scoring on one possession at the end, surely the team can continue to play well like they were building the leads and not let it get close.
• Dak - please contact the NBA to ensure they remove a few wins from our total in particular those games when Mobley's 4th quarter performances won the game, ie in New York
• Funnily enough I actually agree with the start of Daks post, ie the non Mobley stuff and I clearly believe this team is not good enough for the playoffs, but it certainly isn't Mobleys fault and is more due to lack of defense and rebounding especially from the front court and the lack of experience, but luckily they are growing, and improving and things will only continue to get better.

Smeg

PS Dak - Please turn yourself in, you need help and really badly need to get back on your medication and don't worry the lobotomy won't hurt

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"Repression never did me any harm (I finally ceased to include "stop masturbating" as one of my guilt ridden New Year's resolutions, but that's a different topic)." Achebe - programmer by day, Mrs Palmers Husband by night

 

almu,

We know you didn't watch the game.

Haven,

I knew my comments would be taken the wrong way about your comments that were taken the wrong one, by ... oh, what was I talking about.

[tring hard not to use a smilie]...[/end smilie]

EB42,

First, where are you coming from with first day posts summing up make writing with "far too often". Welcome man. Whoever you are, I'm glad you came out of lurk mode finally.

Maybe I come out sounding as a public defender of Mobley, but to me that's simply the majority stigmaticizing me and other Mobley fans, almost as a means to dismiss our views. In a huge sea of criticism, we are not defending, rather just stating my point. Why do you say we are defending someone who we honestly think is a better one-on-one player than Francis. Do I call mobley-bashers defenders of Francis? I really don't gets this "defender of Mobley" thing. I am in awe of Mobley. I consider him our best one-on-one player.

Francis does a lot of things great, but is not as good as Mobley at one-on-one, which also makes Mobes the better pnr player. I'm not defending him; I defended him last year; but this year he has proven to me he is a star, that's how I truly feel.

You say Mobley crashes and burns. And you tell me that I "hyperbolize a player's shortcomings", probably becomes I say Francis isn't having an A+ year like many feel here, so I point out his shortcomings, like fastbreaks and dangerous dribbling. But I'm not the only one saying that. I swear to god sometimes that the majority here just won't accept anyone saying Mobley is better than Francis at something. Hell, Shandon is better than Francis on fastbreaks. Am I defending Shandon by saying that, or is that a hyperbole again. Moochie is the best dribbler on the team. Is that a dis on Francis?

Why is it that you seem to really want to say that Francis is the best at everything, because the stats say so, but then you say you "don't like the percentages".

And my point to your claim that "name one GOOD player who Mobley has beaten"...he beats them all. Only team rotations can stop Mobley. You really think he can't get by anyone and everyone. You really believe Francis does it better. You name one good defensive PG that Francis has destroyed in the 4th quarter. We lose to Minn and SA every game, because Francis gets shut down against great defensive teams.

Again, welcome for registering finally. You make a good contribution, and I have a feeling you will be teaching me a thing or two about the games, soon.

cheers.