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America is Regressing into a Developing Nation for Most People

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by dachuda86, Apr 21, 2017.

  1. Man

    Man Contributing Member

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    Generally agree with your post but can you provide the proof on immigrants from SE Asia? From what I understand, statistically by ethnic group it is one of the most underperforming in the U.S. by academic achievement and, relatedly, by family household income levels. Appreciate it.
     
  2. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    He may just be thinking about nail salon's and pho restaurants.

    ha
     
  3. ApolloRLB

    ApolloRLB Member

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  4. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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  5. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    No one ever said the general public is rational or well informed.
     
  6. Joshfast

    Joshfast "We're all gonna die" - Billy Sole
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    Bunch of temporarily embarrassed millionaires. Nothing to see here, I've been programmed to yell COMMIES! at anyone trying to better our society in any way shape or form.
     
  7. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    Like money, when you inflate your word count, the words lose value.

    You think Americans have more social mobility than Chinese? LOL. You officially know zero about China.

    Yeah Ivanka Trump is Ivanka Trump coz she had like 100,000 times more "willpower drive and discipline" than the checkout lady at the supermarket. Believe it, if it helps your selfishness.
     
  8. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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  9. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Major,

    So what developed countries have you been to where you see as many beggars as in this country?
     
  10. Gutter Snipe

    Gutter Snipe Contributing Member

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    Canada sure has a bunch.
     
  11. Gutter Snipe

    Gutter Snipe Contributing Member

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    I'd think just the reputation for focus on education plus looking at college campuses would make this a relatively unchallenged statement, but you can read some data here. It doesn't compare whites vs asians directly on graduation rates but mentions them favorably, and then points out that they make more on average for having a degree.
     
  12. Gutter Snipe

    Gutter Snipe Contributing Member

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    I don't need a source - I have 12+ million migrants who came across the southern border who think being here is a pretty great thing. They seem to think that the combination of economic opportunity plus free benefits is worth the risk of coming here.

    Btw, I was poor in Canada. I got an education and got the hell out of the country because the system here rewards excellence.
     
  13. Gutter Snipe

    Gutter Snipe Contributing Member

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    Nice study. I can think of two large groups of people (namely poor whites and poor blacks) who are dragging our numbers down because of generational dependence on the government. This is a cultural problem, not a structural problem in my mind because immigrants to the country who assimilate tend to do pretty well.

    By the way, in addition to welfare dependency, both of those groups probably suffer from the breakdown of the family unit, have high percentages of single parent families and have been hurt by government families that encourage the same. Broken families on welfare don't tend to turn out high performers on average.

    What do you think we should do to fix it? Or perhaps you see different problems than I do?
     
  14. ApolloRLB

    ApolloRLB Member

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    Basic Income or higher minimum wage. Don't give lazy people incentive to not work because it will reduce they're government benefits.
     
  15. London'sBurning

    London'sBurning Contributing Member

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    Job training programs that provide education or the resources for apprenticeships in fields that have a lack of candidates. I've linked this before like six to nine months ago but http://www.capitalidea.org is an example around the Houston and Austin area. They help people that are residents of Austin and Houston that are low income (this is the only real check) and provide them free tuition, books, and much much more affordable daycare if they have children so aspiring students can attend class.

    In Austin, there's a heavy shortage of IT, healthcare and construction trade based workers. What Capital IDEA does is help low income people receive the proper credentials to work in these sectors that offer competitive wages and benefits. Studies over a 10 year period show that people that complete this program end up breaking the cycle of generational dependence on government aid. These students who are adults with children of their own, end up raising children who when they become adults, don't need government assistance. Likewise for those children's children.

    To those that say it's just poor people mooching off government assistance in the form of education, studies again done over a 10 year period show that these graduates upon getting jobs, end up paying back millions more in taxes collectively than what they took by joining the program. This gets these people off other government programs like food stamps, government assisted housing and appointed healthcare. They enjoy a much greater quality of life by having higher wages.

    On average the annual income of people that join the program make around $10,500 annually. Upon graduation they earn up $40K, putting them in a higher tax bracket. Because these jobs in healthcare, IT and construction provide opportunity for growth, often times graduates of this program pursue higher education and earn much greater salaries. I think this is evidence that if given the opportunity to prosper, people will take that chance. That's not the America we live in though for most people that don't have parental financial assistance. The thing is, programs like Capital IDEA take maybe $4-6 million a year to provide low income individuals job training opportunities. Contrast that with corporate welfare in the form in tax subsidies meant to entice big corporations to locate in the U.S., which in Texas costs taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars annually and you get a lot more bang for your buck by actually supporting people instead of corporations. Again over a 10 year study, programs like Capital IDEA ultimately yield tax payers a rate of return on their investment of 10%. That's better than most people's retirement plans.

    TLDR; Invest in people. Not corporations.
     
  16. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The 800 pound gorilla is that the world is in the infancy of a socio economic change larger than any seen in at least several hundred years.

    Technology is reaching the point where it can easily and more cost effectively replace human employment in service industries and in the transportation industry. We are on the cusp of having literally millions of jobs replace. Truck drivers are going to start being phased out, that is the largest area of employment in many states, and provide lower middle class employment. In the near future, there will be no need to employ fast food employees and even many employees in dying department stores. They are even working on cars you purchase driving to the owners home.

    All of this hits the USA and developed nations first, and we are seeing the speeding up of the process the last few years.

    There IS no easy solution to the problem when 30-40% of jobs are queued to be replace in the next 25-30 years.

    The USA cannot stop it, and shouldn't try to, because we will just fall behind. The negative consequences will be even a greater concentration of wealth in a select few people, even more dependence on the government. How do people live and thrive without a job? Does the government make payments? Does that make people even more at the mercy of their government?

    No one has offered a really solid solution. The Trump idiots and the far left socialist idiots both want to put us in a time machine relying on coal and American made products and protection American jobs.... it is a WASTE of time. It is like someone in 1908 trying to shut down Ford and the car industry to save buggy whip manufactures.

    Consider that nearly 9,000,000 Americans are employed in the truck driving industry. Estimates are that 80-90 of those will be rendered obsolete. Even if we say just 50%, that comes to 4,500,000 jobs lost and that doesn't count the families involved, which can easily mean 10,000,000 households effected.

    In the fast food industry there are about 4,000,000 employees. The projections are 80% of them will be replaces. That means 3,000,000 jobs lost.

    Jobs in department stores like Wal Mart, the mall, even grocery store account for tens of millions of jobs. That means literally millions of jobs vulnerable.


    There are over 320,000,000 people in the USA. Of that number only 123,000,000 work.

    We have already transitioned from a manufacturing economy to a service industry economy, we literally shifted employment heavily to the service industry and that is now changing.

    So with 123,000,000 Americans supporting a population of 320,000,000..... we are going to remove tens of millions of jobs in the next 20 years and there are no viable other jobs for them to take.

    We will see unemployment spike and how we choose to handle the situation is of paramount importance.

    What will we do when 80% of the nation does not have a standard job? How do we take wealth from those that control the total means of production? How do small businesses survive when the start up cost goes way up? Do we tax the means of production (robots) like we do people and then pass that on to the American workers that no longer have a job?

    Rather than worry about this issue we have people talk about the 1% screwing everyone, or want to build a wall to keep out Mexicans from taking jobs that aren't going to exist anyway.
     
    #36 Nook, May 1, 2017
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
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  17. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    Except there were jobs to replace those. The next epic offers none. Is that better? Being reliant on the government dole? No. People want jobs. We don't need to replace the jobs you mentioned. Those replacements only help corporations! You are drinking the globalist cool aid.
     
  18. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    You make it easy, Gutter Snipe.

    You can't compare a mostly merit based immigration pool to the average American. A large portion of that immigration pool from SE Asia are student visa holders and H1B visa holders. They are a group that is weeded out with a selection process vs the average population. It's why the Average Muslim immigrant is more educated than the average American. It's why the average Nigerian immigrant is more educated than the average American.

    That's just stupid. I would hope that you would have the common sense to figure that out on your own.

    I would really love to learn where you pick up these hilarious notions. Is that why empirically poorer class individuals have a much greater tendency to chose more difficult STEM professions like engineering while children born of wealth in this country are far more likely to chose majors such as 'business administration'?

    What is up with the children of the top 1% and their fear of choosing difficult fields of study?
     
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  19. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Can you tell me an avenue that suits your desired future that doesn't purposely stunt technological progress?
     
  20. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Globalist kool ade?

    We don't "need to replace the jobs"?

    The hell you don't.... study history and innovation.

    Those jobs WILL be replaced, they already are in the process of being replaced because there are cheaper and more productive alternatives.

    You can bury your head in the sand and fight it, but you will LOSE. People fought the industrial revolution, and open markets and even the development of computers and all those people that fought it lost. Progress wins.

    Of course people want jobs, the reality is that most people are hard workers.......... but the jobs will be replaced, and many of the full time jobs will be turned into part time jobs.... and HOW we choose to respond will have a huge bearing on the future we leave our children and grand children.

    I appreciate your Jeffersonian sentiment........ but Jefferson lost to Hamilton. Just because we do not like it, doesn't mean it isn't going to happen.
     

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