Friends of mine have a suprising loyalty to the public school system. They seem to feel they have a civic duty (and not just a financial necessity) to send their children (real or hypothetical) to the public school. I don't have anything against public schools, in principle, but I don't really understand why many of my friends feel it is so important to be loyal to it. Can you explain it? What do you want for your own children (real or hypothetical)? And, though it may be a distraction, I'm a great lover of unscientific polls, so I'm throwing one in.
I send my children to a Catholic school nearly 30 miles away from home because: A. I know they will receive discpline B. I'm Catholic and my kids are Catholic. (My wife is not, she's a Methodist) C. The level of teaching and the difficulty is much better than the public schools. An A at my children's school is extremely difficult to get. My children are at a higher level academically than public school children their age. D. I don't think that government schools do the job in this country, because so many are leaving school not knowing anything of value.
My kids go to public school. In the town in which they live, the public schools are as good as any out there, the facilities are very new and nice (one school just opened this year), and there really aren't any good private school options where they live anyway. I went to public schools, and I don't feel like I got any worse an education than my sister who went to private school through elementary.
I truly believe the level of success in education is derived much more by the student than the system/program. If you put a great student who wants to learn in any education system (public, private, home schooled, etc) they will find ways to excel. The only way my children would goto a private school is if there is another force (ie/ if the public school did not offer a particular extracurricular activity) which would make it advantageus to go there. i attended a public HS but a private college and to be honest I think I would have learned the same thing at a State School and spent about $40K less.
My wife and I have actually discussed this a fair bit. The schools in our neighbourhood are not the best in town, and this was a bit of a concern when we moved here. I'm strongly in favour of public schools. Generally, I do not like private schools. Here's why: Diversity I think its important for kids to get exposure to other kids from all walks of life. The poor, disadvantaged, rich, -- you name it. A private school has barriers that prevent certain groups from getting in -- financial/ religios/ other. I don't want my kid surrounded primarily by 'his kind.' He won't truly empathize with kids different than he is by reading about them. I want him to know them as friends. Neighbourhhood Private schools tend to draw from a larger geographic area. Kids are driven to school. Their parent live all over town. I want to know my neighbours. I want my kids' friends to be other kids in my neighbourhood. I think a local (generally public) school is a better focal point to bring together parents in the same neighbourhood, than a private school across town. It allows us to get to know our neighbours, and take an active role in our community. Civic Access to good schools is important. We all benefit. When the wealthy, middle class, or even just the more active parents remove their kids from the public school system, they, naturally, take less interest in it. They are more likely to dismiss or rationalize problems in the public school system and be less diligent in ensuring the schools are safe and conducive to learning. This leaves lesser schools for those who may not have access to the private school system. This is the 'civic duty' aspect. It is basis for my philosophical bias against private schools. I want the parents with influence (either because of financial means, or because they take an active role) to be fighting for the schools to which all kids have access. I want to minimize the 'two tiered' system and segregation of kids who can opt out of the public system from those who cannot. People tend to take a much greater interest in something in which they have a direct stake, and I don't want the public school system ignored. That said.. I, of course, want whats best for my son. So, when the time comes, i'll evaluate the schools in my neighbourhood. And, if I'm not satisfied, I may just move to another school district -- but i highly doubt we would send him to a private school. (and if i had serious misgiving about the public sysem -- concern for my son would override any philosophical preference)
I've been to Local Public, Magnet Public, Secular Private, And Religious Private schools. there is nothing like the mixtures of people at a public school. Although i was much ahead of many students when i went into public school in 7th grade. And the magnet school is just like a public school without a proper identity of which school team to support, the one all your friends do or the one u are at now.
bnb, thanks for the long response. Now, a clarifying question: doesn't the practice of choosing where you live for the sake of the quality of the neighborhood public school conflict with the desire to have a diverse student body? For example, Bellaire is one of the biggest public school draws in Houston. Because of this, there is now a large concentration of monied and active parents sending their kids to Bellaire, thereby neglecting the other run-of-the-mill (not to mention the impoverished) schools and creating a private-school-like homogeneity in the student body. In fact, the high taxes in Bellaire works almost like a tuition -- except one for which you cannot get a scholarship. Do you have a similar distaste for them? For my own self, I intend to send my children to a good private school. My reasons are: 1. It's crazy to let the quality of the local educational system determine where you live. And, local schools actually have a huge impact on property values (and as a result, the cost of moving in and your taxes). With private schools in mind, I could move into the 3rd Ward without a second thought to the pitful local public school (I do want a good local school, btw, and I'm incentivized to work for it because it impacts the value of my home and the qulaity of my neighborhood; I'm just not willing to sacrifice education for it). My children will actually get a somewhat diverse (or at least bi-polar) experience going to a white school and living in a black neighborhood. 2. I am opposed to the principal of local-funding for schools. I can understand wanting to have a neighborhood school, but having it paid for by taxes in the area naturally leads to great inequalities in funding and quality. I still pay my taxes, of course, but I object to the system. In terms of civic duty, I think I may be doing more good by forcing the school to respond to market forces. I understand what bnb was saying about having active parents affecting change at a school, but this is a nationwide macro-problem. 3. Public schools sacrifice education to conform to rules about how they should be run. They won't teach anything about philosphy or religion. They manage teachers with standardized testing and don't let them do as they know best. 4. Public schools are unresponsive to the desires of the parents because the revenue stream is secured by taxes. When parents threaten to leave a private school, administrators pay attention. 5. Not many public schools are good. To be fair, most private schools (especially religious ones) aren't good either. There is a large market in religious private schools in providing to the parent an oasis from the godless, violent, drug-using, sex-having, smoking, dancing and drinking public school and they forget they're supposed to provide a better education. I don't want that either. Education has been important to both me and my wife and we want something top-notch. 6. I want to try to teach my children to be more fluent in French than me. There's only one school in Houston that can help me there (Awty).
I went to public schools, but I will take my kids to a private school if I can afford it. The non-upper level course are a complete joke because there are too many kids who don't care for whatever reason. My friend went to Awty and he knows French pretty well. In a public school I wouldn't be confident in my kids becoming fluent in any language, not even English..
I would send my kids to Awty...but I doubt I will be in Houston when I have kids. In answer to the original question, I still have not answered. This is a problem for my wife and me. In no way will my kids go to a school such as the one to which I went. Someone earlier posted about schools not mattering or making much difference - well, it is hard to learn geometry or chemestry when there is a class but no teacher. Or, it is hard to want to do well when there are small-minded teachers and administrators who will use it against you and "hate" you for it (their words, not mine). So, yeah, not going to happen. I don't know about private because who knows if that will be a financial option, etc.. Whatever it ends up being, public, private, vanguard (better than magnate in my opinion, it will be highly scrutinized and it will not be a light decision. I don't want idiots filling my kids' heads with crap.
Juan: You are dead-on about my inconsistency in considering a move to get into a better school district vs my misgivings about private schools. When choosing between my ideal school system and what's best for my son, my son wins -- hands down And while I want him to meet people from 'all' walks of life, i'll still shield him from those i deem to be 'bad influences' Totally inconsistent. I share most of your concerns about the public system, especially with regard to bureaucracy and inflexibility and unresponsiveness to varying degrees It just wish that those who were concerned enough to recognize the problem, would be actively pushing to address those problems. But you are correct. That's a macro problem. Not only in America, but around the world. Since I'm big on community and neighbourhoods changing school districts while remaining the public system appeases that objective of mine. I want my kids to walk to school. I want their classmates to live in near them. I share your concerns with local funding of schools. Crazy system. In the end, we all do what we think is best for our kids. Even though the schools in my neighbourhood are not the best in town they are still very good. If they were not, I would not even consider them. My misgivings about private schools are not so much a 'distaste' but rather...misgivings...rathers...ideals....ponderings, really. In the end, 4chuckies probably right. Its the kids themselves (and their parents) which have the greatest impact. I've met incredibly insightful people from both private and public schools.
my son will go to pre-school and kindergarten at the same lutheran church school i went to as a child. then he'll go to first grade and beyond in public schools. i don't know that i have any real allegiance...i just believe the public schools i went to were fantastic, and we live in the same area of town i grew up in.
And what diversity in these subjects do you think your kids will get at schools run by religious institutions? I went to Catholic School for 12 years, and through my education before College, I can tell you a lot about catholicism, but not much else in the way of theology or philosophy.
Being a religious school doesn't necessarily proclude them from being able to teach about other religions. I think it's a good thing for you to have learned something about Catholicism, at least, even if you didn't get any other exposure. Honestly, I don't much care if the school has a bias; and, it is quite possible that I won't find a school that will adequately cover it (in my own private school experience, my education in religious things was minimal at best). I just resent having a whole area of learning redacted by the government. Btw, I thought of another reason to send my kids to private school: 7. My kids won't be white, so they can simultaneously add to the racial diversity of the private school and hopefully up the average of the minority population's education.
Both can be good, but one forces all students to perform whereas the other only pushes as hard as the student is willing to learn. It all comes down to whats best for the individual kids, i.e. if a kid doesn't do it on his own he probably needs a more regimented structure. Thats why its good to have both around. I went to public but would probably send my kids to Catholic school just so they get a good faith foundation, which I missed.
The biggest problem I ever had with private school is the exclusivity. It does give you an elitist attitude, that while on the one hand may instill confidence, but on the other, may really deprive you of the differences in people in your community. Just think about how two of our more famous D&D posters that have usually bragged about their private school experience, talk down to everyone in this forum. . It really is a problem, believe me when I first went to college, I thought I was smarter and generally better than others, even though I really didn't know I felt that way, but I was reminded a few times by fellow students, and I can promise you, I wasn't the only one who suffered this unintended consequense of attending private school my entire life up until that point.
You mean Trader J and MacBeth? I'm just guessing there. But there's nothing wrong with being cocky. I would rather my kids be cocky than timid, or god forbid overly compassionate.
An interesting topic. I live in a neighborhood surrounded, in the main, by Republicans, because the elementary schools are exemplary. I pay high property taxes as a result of being in a desirable area, but an offset of that is the value of my home has gone up considerably more than in many other parts of Austin. Having said that, if I could afford to send my 2 kids to private schools and live in the central city, which is predominately Democratic and liberal, I would certainly do so. The areas in the central part of Austin that have public elementary schools that compare to where we are now are too damned expensive. You make compromises based on what you're willing to put up with, your income and how important you feel it is that your kids get the best education you are capable of providing... which is at the top of the list for us. Compromise can be a b****. Having said that, my 7th grader goes to a "magnet" middle school in the central city. He loves it. Someone gave a lecture at his elementary school about it when he was in the 5th grade and he came to us and said, "this is where I want to go." We're lucky enough to have 2 "gifted and talented" kids and my son was accepted without any problem. In 6th grade, he took Latin and law, among other things, that he never would have gotten in the "good" middle school near our neighborhood. There is great diversity, which we wanted, that our area doesn't have. He's making friends from a variety of backgrounds. The downside is that it's one hell of a commute. But at least we feel like we're getting him an excellent education. It's very hard to make these decisions and I don't envy anyone who has to do it. So far, we've been lucky. But we're still keeping our eye out for a house we can afford in a less conservative area.
