1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Pat Mahomes, the savior.

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by Snow Villiers, Jan 5, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Two Sandwiches

    Two Sandwiches Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    22,536
    Likes Received:
    14,068
    Reminds me more of Matt Stafford.
     
    raining threes likes this.
  2. raining threes

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    12,578
    Likes Received:
    8,199
    Sound like a work ethic issues

    Mahomes is known to be a hardworker.
     
  3. panamamyers

    panamamyers Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2000
    Messages:
    1,284
    Likes Received:
    1,100
    Being able to tell the difference between a guy succeeding because he is in a certain system and a guy succeeding and happening to be in a system while doing it is what is going to separate the NFL-capable scouts from others.

    Just because Mahomes is in a system favorable to qb's does not exclude him from also being really good.
    Put 21 year old Peyton Manning, John Elway, Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, Steve Young and Troy Aikman in the Air Raid offense and they would look great. Put 21 year old Andre Ware, David Klingler, Geno Smith, Timmy Chang, Tim Rattay, Colt Brennan, Tim Couch and Chris Redman in the Air Raid offense and they would look great.

    Pay Mahomes has generational type arm talent, which Geno Smith(as an example) did not have.
     
  4. gucci888

    gucci888 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    17,063
    Likes Received:
    6,301
    NFL scouts have been trying to do this for years now and each have failed pretty miserably. I believe Goff is the only QB on a current NFL roster that came from a true air-raid offense (assuming Foles gets cut).

    Don't really understand your point on this. Of course they would, but the issue isn't whether good QBs can play in an air-raid, but whether air-raid QBs can succesfully transition into a pro-style offense. We have yet to actually see this despite how many good looking prospects have come out. Sure Mahomes can be the first and we'll look like geniuses but the ideal situation would for him to come in and sit a year, a luxury BoB doesn't have at this point really.
     
  5. Two Sandwiches

    Two Sandwiches Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    22,536
    Likes Received:
    14,068
    Most people would call the offense Derek Carr played in at Fresno State an air raid offense. At least for a year, for sure. That's twice now (I believe...Sorry if I'm wrong) that I've seen you miss this, and have pointed it out.

    Maybe you're not counting him because he only spent half his college career in a spread offense....Who knows?
     
    #285 Two Sandwiches, Feb 16, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
  6. gucci888

    gucci888 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    17,063
    Likes Received:
    6,301
    Believe I responded the last time too but Carr did not play in an air raid offense. He played in a pro style offense for one year before running the spread. While majority of teams are running some form of the spread nowadays, there are only a handful of schools that actually run an air raid. Fresno State was not one of them.
     
  7. coachbadlee

    coachbadlee Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Messages:
    28,004
    Likes Received:
    8,502
    You know with better footwork Mahomes would be Carr like.

     
  8. Ultimateian

    Ultimateian Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Messages:
    347
    Likes Received:
    10
    I don't like his sidearm, but if it's accurate. I just don't feel like waiting another three years to develop a rookie quarterback when we can develop Brock.
     
  9. TEXNIFICENT

    TEXNIFICENT Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    7,741
    Likes Received:
    6,409
    Rick Smith/Texans draft record after round 2 is really mediocre. It will be difficult for them to hit on an OT in the middle rounds. It really hinders team building because you can get some players on the cheap for years if you hit on those mid round bargains and not have to pay a premium in free agency. I like Mahomes, I think he has some potential, but i have no idea where he goes could be late 1st or the 4th round.
     
  10. Two Sandwiches

    Two Sandwiches Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    22,536
    Likes Received:
    14,068
    Is it though? I mean you have three starters off the top of my head that were undrafted free agents. One of which is now one of the top free agents in the league.

    Also, DJ Reader, Blue, Newton, Crick, Savage, Quin, Diles, Kasey Studdard, Adibi, James Casey, Brice McCain, Troy Nolan, Earl Mitchell, Sharpton, Graham, Keo, TJ Yates, Brandon Brooks, Ben Jones, Fiedorowicz, Prosch, Covington, and Ervin have all been big contributors taken after the second round. Most of those guys were taken in the fourth, or later. If anything, the scouting staff has been good, and it's what lead us to have depth and a good team. Well, that coupled with decent coaching.

    Let's not forget how great we've been at street free agents, either.


    This team, and it's scouting staff, gets a bad knock on scouting. If it's not a quarterback, we've proven we scout well. No way you can stay afloat like we have, without a QB, with poor scouting and drafting. That's a false narrative.


    Of course, the question is, how much of a part does Rick Smith actually play in drafting and scouting.


    Also, no way Mahomes goes in the fourth. No way he makes it through the second. You could probably say at this point, he won't make it through the first. Someone will trade up at the end for him.
     
    #290 Two Sandwiches, Feb 19, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  11. raining threes

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    12,578
    Likes Received:
    8,199
    If the depth is so good tell me why the OL was so terrible last yr.

    How come a guy as bad as Corey Moore was starting at safety during a playoff games.

    Look at the holes on this roster and it will tell you that this team is anything but deep.

    Ricky has made some good draft picks but doesn't have a clue when it comes to roster building.
     
  12. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    63,182
    Likes Received:
    25,831

    Because their IR list looked like this

    39 Ballentine, Lonnie S 6-3 225 23 3 Memphis
    36 Dillon, K.J. S 6-0 200 22 R West Virginia
    23 Drummond, Kurtis S 6-1 200 25 2 Michigan State
    7 Fairbairn, Ka'imi K 6-0 190 23 R UCLA
    30 Johnson, Kevin CB 6-0 185 24 2 Wake Forest
    66 Martin, Nick C 6-4 300 23 R Notre Dame
    13 Miller, Braxton WR 6-1 205 24 R Ohio State
    72 Newton, Derek T 6-6 315 29 6 Arkansas State
    48 Rivers, Gerald OLB 6-2 250 26 2 Mississippi
    91 Still, Devon DE 6-5 305 27 4 Penn State
    11 Strong, Jaelen WR 6-2 205 23 2 Arizona State
    49 Washington Jr., Tony OLB 6-4 255 24 1 Oregon
    99 Watt, J.J. DE 6-5 295 27 6 Wisconsin

    I mean, when you have 3 safeties on the IR along with 2 starting O linemen and another O lineman has injury problems at the start of the year, you'll have some issues at O line and at safety.
     
    Two Sandwiches likes this.
  13. raining threes

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    12,578
    Likes Received:
    8,199
    I agree about the OL and it points to a lack of depth.

    As far as the safety position, did you/Smith expect Ballentine to contribute last yr? I didn't. Loved the Dillon draft pick but did you expect him to see the field last yr other than on ST's? I didn't

    Drummond is the same/worse version of Moore.
     
  14. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    63,182
    Likes Received:
    25,831
    I think my point was that any O line would struggle if you take out 2 of their starters, I don't think it's exactly fair to blame a team for not having starter caliber backup O linemen. Now in a perfect world your backup would be better than guys like Chris Clark, so yeah, they do need some more quality depth at O line, but I'm not sure that makes the case that they "don't have a clue" when it comes to roster building. I mean.....despite all the injuries they did pretty damn well last season.

    As to the safety spot, you generally can't lose 3 safeties and still have anything worth a damn left even if you have decent depth.
     
  15. raining threes

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    12,578
    Likes Received:
    8,199
    Agree to disagree on this.

    I think the depth on this team is below avg, you dont.

    Our minds aren't going to change.
     
  16. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    53,805
    Likes Received:
    111,568
    The most important need in the draft is unquestionably QB. The real issue is whether there is a QB worthy of being taken in round 1 when the Texans pick. I do believe a RT is a huge priority (especially considering we really need several upgrades on the OL). It all comes down to scouting again. I would be fine going OL in Rd. 1 & 2 if the picks aren't reaches and there isn't a viable QB.
     
  17. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    63,182
    Likes Received:
    25,831
    Sure, IF there was some kind of game changing QB that could be drafted then that would be one thing, but since there isn't it elevates OT to the top spot at least IMO. I just don't see this as a very good QB class. The best this class has to offer are very flawed prospects.
     
  18. The Real Shady

    The Real Shady Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2000
    Messages:
    17,170
    Likes Received:
    3,966
    The issue is that if there was a game changing QB that everyone knew of you wouldn't be able to trade for them. It would be too expensive. The only shot is to trade for a QB with flaws.
     
  19. Nimo

    Nimo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    13,392
    Likes Received:
    7,056
    Most teams that lose their starting RT for about 4 games and then their starting LT for more games and their starting center for the whole season are going to have bad OL play. Backups, are backups for a reason. If they are good enough to be everyday starters, that's what they will be
     
  20. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    48,041
    Likes Received:
    51,267
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now