One scoring SF and a stud Front line player are missing!!!

put me down as someone who would pass on Carter, for all the reasons I gave above.

 

OK, I agree with your view on the SF vs. big man for this team. There's probably five or six big men that would fit better than Carter that will be available in the next two year. I'm really just taking a shot in the dark since I'm a Rockets fan and not an NBA fan (actually, I'm a baseball fan just killing the last month of boredom), but wouldn't we be better served hanging onto some of the cap room in the long run? If I'm wrong let me know, but it seems to me keeping the status quo would only be good enough for a 7th or 8th seed in the playoffs and an early exit next year.

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The thing is, HP, you are making this an either/or situation while I'm looking at whether the team would be better off with a "true" SF. Yes, the team would benefit from having a rebounding PF. I wouldn't use Fortson as my example of that, since he's such a health risk. But that type of player - Otis Thorp or one of Indiana's Davis boys in their prime - would help immensely.

To go back to the "game" you speak of, I'd say I named at least 2 teams (the first-run Bulls and the later Bulls, with an almost entirely different roster). But its easy to point out a position that is supposedly superfluous. For example, when is the last time a star PG won the championship? I'll answer that one: Isiah Thomas, more than a decade ago. A follow-up: when is the last time a star PG won a title without a high-scoring SF along side? Isiah had Dantley/Aguirre, Magic had Worthy, Mo Cheeks had Dr. J. Maybe Francis does need a scoring SF to help him take this team to the promised land.

You know, this game is easy.


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In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.

[This message has been edited by SamCassell (edited March 07, 2001).]

 

hey garza, you planning on playing ball tommorow? I'll be there i think.

Heyp, you talk like the Rockets can pick either one. Stud PF or Stud SF. It's not always that simple. Yes I would definently prefer a big man to a SF, esp. with our awesome guards, but I wouldn't pass up a star SF for a mediocre frontline man. It appears like it will be easier to get a good SF than a better PF than Mo. As always, it appears there will be almost no centers for the Rockets to grab, oh well.

I would much prefer Marion over Fortson and many other PF type players. And you can only have so many big people. Centers are scarce, so most likely you are picking up a PF, a position which I think the Rockets have pretty well covered with MO and KT. Getting another PF means we have to give up on one of them, and maybe give up something from another position as well if its a trade. SF is wide open right now, so its very easy to add someone into the mix.

Of course, even mediocre talented centers always break rules for priority. Snatch em up if u can.

Stockpile talent, try to diversify if possible. If nothing else, you end up with good trade bait. Maybe you can grab an unhappy stud big man with your stud SF and some change latter on.

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your game is too narrow because it looks at only title winners. They are often freak teams based on freaks of nature. We are talking about prototypes.

Eliminate the freaks of nature like Magic, Jordan and Hakeem (sort of like throwing away the highs and lows) and you have all the title contenders to add to this game.


I may be making this an either/or, but you seem only to say that a better SF would improve the team. Well, I agree by the very use of the word "better".

My point again is if you can have a "better" SF versus a "better" PF or C, what would you take, in my fantasy league you can't have both.

 

Crisco,

I look at that argument and see no need to improve our 3 guard positions. We have no SF and it suits us just fine.

Sure I'd take your Reef or Marion over a mediocre PF, but in my fantasy league, that would only be a first step to trading their ass for a stud PF/C. I see no great increase in value at adding a SF of any calibre to Francis, Mobley, Anderson other than increasing our trading power.

And I would certainly never trade Francis, Mobley, Anderson for a SF (when we have a PF and C position to beef up). That really is not adding much value at all.

 

I limited my thinking to championship teams based on what you said, originally. And also because I'd like to see us win another title, and not be just pretty good.

My choice, between landing a solid PF, a solid SF, or a solid C would of course be to get a center. Those guys are rarer than gold. Fairly productive power forwards are basically dime-a-dozen, compared with centers. I would take a post player for the Rockets over a wing guy because we will lack a solid interior presence next season if Dream leaves, or goes back to being old and decrepit.

But I agree with Crisco that your scenario is a fantasy world only, where you pick and choose the position for your next superstar. If Michael Finley wanted to join the Rockets and CWebb was staying in Sacramento, I would take him. Imagine if the Blazers weren't so position-conscious in 1984, and took a chance with Jordan instead of Bowie.


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In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.

 

So you are saying you wouldn't want a SF because it would mess up the 3 guard chemistry?

Well, if that sf brings more to the table than Shandy or Mobes, then yeah I say bring him on board, even at the cost of one of the 2(probly Shandy, his game is the easiest to adjust to others). Esp multitalented SFs that are PF combos, like Rahim, Marion, Croshere, Odom, Nowitzki, etc.

You can't even mention a center cuz there are none out there hardly. Maybe Antonio Davis. Kandi? don't think so. There isn't much out there for center, even PF/C combos. So basically you are looking for a PF not a "frontline stud". There are almost no PFs available that will be an upgrade over MO or KT. So why not improve the Rocket's weakest position? Just because they are used to getting nothing out of it does not mean that is necessarily a trend that should continue.

I say go for best non-guard talent, and of course the taller the better.

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[This message has been edited by CriscoKidd (edited March 07, 2001).]

 

no, no, Crisco.

I'm saying adding a SF will not add much over the 3 guard lineup we already have.

What is our weakest point, especially post Hakeem. Frontline. Fill that first.

If you got a chance at a Reef, get him. But, I'd trade him as soon as I could for a PF or C.

And yes, we are only talking fantasy here. We haven't really been saying anything concrete about what is available.

[This message has been edited by heypartner (edited March 07, 2001).]

 

Well screw you then!!

I think a great SF could add a lot to this team.

we'll see who the rockets think is right over the offseason!!



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[This message has been edited by CriscoKidd (edited March 07, 2001).]

 

Crisco, there isn't a "right" silly wabbitt. HPack is talking about choices.

If you had the #2, would you add Woods, Ming or Griffin to this team?

You'd add a big player, right?

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git it tag, git it!

 

btw Crisco,

you said I can't name a center or stud PF.

Since when are Odom, Marion, Croshere, Nitwitz, Hill, Jones, Rose, Sprewell, etc available. I consider them all untouchable.

besides Croshere is mediocre.

Do you want to give another go at your stud SF list.

Let's see Carter, Pierce and Reef...right?

I'd trade each of them for a stud PF or Theo Ratliff and another above average young front liner. And I'd have the better overal team, imo.

 

Well duh. Like I said, go for the talented centers, even at the expense of someone who may be a more *special* player. A chance at a good center who is not a liability on the court is rare. Gotta catch em all, all what, 8 of them?

but if it came to , uh I don't know, troy murphy and Griffen and the rockets still had the chance to sign MO, I'd go with Griffen even though Murphy *may* end up being better than MO.

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Murphy *may*??? LOL. Murphy plays with 3 balls at once. He's driving the #3 car baby! He's the in-tim-i-tad-or!!! RAAAAAHHHH!

What was the question?

Oh yeah, this is all moot. My sources have told me that we'll get one of the top 3 picks in the draft this year.

But I see your point... picking Drew over Lewis 'settles' the one when you have a 3 (Quitten) and a DIT offense. It sure looks dumb in hindsight though.

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git it tag, git it!

[This message has been edited by Achebe (edited March 07, 2001).]

 

*sniff* don't diss Croshere, it's not his fault he has to play for a bum of a coach

re-read my post, I said a chance to get a player *like* those. Not necessarily them. It seems like in the draft and in FAgency, there will be more stud SFs up for grabs than stud PFs or Centers(almost no chance for a center). You are generalizing SFs. I know ones that could play like I mentioned would make the Rockets a better team than Ratliff and some change would. Not all SFs, but some.

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Hey, I re-read your post, and it looks like we might have a friendly wager to sweeten the summer.

Whaddya think Crisco, Achebe.

I say will not draft a new SF except to trade him. In fact, I say a new PG shows up to camp before a SF does. Who is this Colson guy, anyhow. Crisco, do you not think their is a SF of Colson calibre in the CBA.

I must warn you: I have seen the full glory and perfection of the 4 out 1 promised land, and it needs no SF.

Who wants to bet?

 

There is one on this team named Walt Williams.

I'm not much of a wagerer, but perhaps. Crazy Ruddy drafts.

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a new PG over a SF? I'll take that, but I consider Moochie leaving and Colson staying != "new".

If you meant PF, that's an interesting bet. The Rockets could have 3 picks... do they pick for need or talent? Do they draft day trade for a 4/5?

Last year they passed up Courtney Alexander (redundant) for Jason Collier. Shandon has an opt out this year... will they be safer w/ him than w/ Cat?

I think that this year the Rockets will draft for best possible talent (unfortunately arguable). Mo's potentially in the hand and drafting a serviceable backup/starting SF to replace Shandon is a better idea than drafting for a backup PF... especially where the Rockets will likely pick. Once we see if the Rocks have lotto balls (and how many of them) vs. po position, I'll likely take that bet... but I'm thinking thin sf/pf swinger vs. pf banger rebounder in the draft.

FAgency calls for only big men.

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git it tag, git it!

 

You're kidding right?

Considering the Rockets' style of play, I would draft Griffin 10 times out of 10.

Woods is Camby with some offense, and I don't know if Ming can run with the troops.

And as far as a team that won with a star SF, try the Rick Barry-led GS Warriors (which is considered one of the least talented championship teams in NBA history).

It's been said many times that championships don't define great players (do you realize that Wilt Chamberlain won fewer rings than Ron Harper, Steve Kerr, Dennis Rodman, and Pippen), but success does, consistently leading teams to the playoffs and winning records does. Therefore you can argue that there have been many great star, scoring SFs who have led their teams to success:

Bernard King
Alex English
Adrian Dantley
Charles Barkley (remember, he was originally Dr. J's replacement)
Clyde Drexler (arguable)
Kiki Vandeweigh(sp? BIG-TIME)
...as well as the current crop of talented SFs in the league.

Actually, a point F, a la Hill or Pippen, would be great with the offensive-minded guards the Rocks have. He could take some of the pressure off Steve and Cat, and allow them to concentrate a bit more on scoring.



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No...I meant PG. If you want to bet PF, that's an easy one. You'll lose that.

Obviously, a lot of faces will show up with all our picks and the Dream windfall.

My bet is we ADD a PG to camp next year (giving us 3) before we add another SF. Colson in addition to Moochie counts for me, of course. Now one more stipulation, any SF added must be projected ahead of Langhi come the start of camp.

If we tie, I win if we get Webber. That way I'll be able to love that day a little more than you....sweeet!