Pride

I don't see Texas pride or Georgia, South Carolina, Mississippi pride as a hate construct like southern pride.

The US has done horrible things but I'm proud to be an American. I've lived in Texas 35+ years and I'm proud to be a Texan but not in a million years would I consider myself southern or have southern pride.

 

Everyone like needs to be proud of something, man. Duder is proud of the art of duding and just being real with people, not sure exactly how this translates for you, though. I certainly don't feel the need to be proud of where I live, or what I own, or what color my skin is, who shat my great aunt out of the whomb, or any other nonsense like that. Just collective appreciation for life, liberty, love of bowling, my country too, my fellow citizens of all races, ages, genders, nationalities, etc. This brings me happiness and happiness is more fulfilling then pride.

 

Yeah, of course I can completely understand somebody in the south having regional/local cultural pride (tell a cajun they can't), and I hope they do, but "Southern" as some sort of geographic entity and having pride in that is bizarre to me.

 

So like, you're saying...Abide?

 

But again, there is more to the culture than that. It isn't only that. It's fine to say yes, slavery is horrible, but there is a Southern Culture that has more elements to it. Those other elements aren't related to Southern Culture.

Since we know only about 20% of Southerners owned slaves when it was legal to do so, does that mean that the other 80% of southerners didn't have any connection to Southern culture? Does it mean that after slavery was outlawed and people who never sought to justify slavery or the South's role in slavery still have a connection to that Southern culture somehow don't, despite their writing about it, and discussing their connection to it?

 

Two types of white pride people

1) racist white power types nothing to say

2) white people who are annoyed by minorities claiming pride and feel like they are losing their country. They aren't really white power as much as they just want to be able to say white pride as a way to reclaim their voice

 

1. Not a good thing.
2. So they are only reacting to minorities claiming pride? Not really much better than number 1.

 

There is nothing inherently racist a bout ethnic/national pride.

 

Identifying with a non-American culture really depends on how you were raised. In your case, it seems your West Indian heritage wasn't emphasized. In my case, my West Indian mother AND African American told me from a very young age that I was not just African American. My father encouraged me to know more about my mother's country because it was a part of her history and therefore a part of mine.

It also helped that for the first few years of my life he was constantly deployed and I spent pretty much all my time with my mother. I didn't even eat alot of African American foods, like collard greens, until I was a pre-teen.

 

Doesn't mean your folks lived like slaves or that they were identified and treated as slaves by business, government, or colleagues just by their looks.

Not having enough money isn't the only thing that divided the poor and slaves. It might've meant they had more in common to talk about, but different strokes...

 

With all due respect, OP, it looks like you are simply celebrating being White. Considering the social position of Whites in this country, I can see why you might be thrilled about being what you say you are.

 

"The South" is a Confederate construct. The most prominent feature of southern culture is racial hatred, always has been and still is today. Unbelievably, there are still several states that have elements of the Confederate flag in their state flags. There's no sweet tea and pecans on those flags. Slavery is even in the language in the south. I have people refer to me as Mister First Name all the time. That's a remnant from slavery and most don't even realize it. I actually ask people not to refer to me that way because it makes me want to puke.

How many southerners actually owned slaves is irrelevant. I didn't napalm any Vietnamese or bomb any Afghans and yet those things were done in my name and I bear responsibility for them as an American. I'm proud to say that millions of Americans protested to stop those wars but in The South they have Civil War re-enactments to celebrate their "culture".

I respect your opinion but I honestly resent you taking this up as some sort of academic exercise.

 

First, the state flags with the confederate flags added those in the 50's as a reaction against the civil rights movement. Those confederate flags on state flags are not about honoring the history of the South, they about trying to strike out against civil rights. It isn't like those states still have that confederate flag that they are saving since the confederacy. They added them in, during the 20th century. So they still have them since then, but not since the civil war.

I support your wish not to be called Mr. "First Name". I understand the offensive roots in that practice. Also civil war re-enactments are done in the north as well as the south every bit as much if not more. So re-enacting battles isn't a Southern thing done to cast positive reflection on slavery, at least as a general rule.

I think what is happening is that people are confusing the civil war with Southern culture. Southern culture was in place before the civil war. A part of that culture was absolutely the acceptance of slavery. But other parts really were a gentility, honor, music, dances and, food (the things that contribute to all culture).

I'm not trying to take it up as an academic exercise, but merely express my views, and those expressed in literature and of others that absolutely wasn't trying to glorify or honor slavery.

I keep bringing up Andrew Young, because I think he is far more accomplished in working toward ending and understanding the civil rights movement than I am. He was with MLK, when he was murdered, he along with MLK and Ralph Abernathy during the movements beginnings, and all along the way. He has expressed an understanding and appreciation of Southern Culture that goes beyond just slavery.

That being said, I appreciate how awful and horrible slavery was. I don't denounce anyone's right and/or choice to reject all of Southern culture because of slavery. I only reject the idea that anyone who feels and professes a connection to Southern culture is in anyway excusing, or honoring slavery. I will even go further and say that there are some people who trumpet an appreciation for Southern culture who absolutely do it in order to strike out at the idea of civil rights. Those people's idea of Southern culture isn't everyone's idea of Southern culture.

That is why earlier in this thread I said it is a double edged sword. Some people use to be racist, and some use it for something separated from racism.

It makes it difficult to discuss when all people who use the term are lumped together.

 

This is silly.

There is certainly a difference in life style and culture in the traditional South and other areas of the country. There is absolutely no reason someone cannot be proud to be from the South.

 

is there a difference between pride and not being ashamed?

 

I think that's what majority of 'black price is. It's a statement saying "We are not ashamed of who we are even if for centuries we were told we were inferior at the genetic level".