CIA: Russia manipulated the election to install Trump

one thing most people don't realize is that the sophistication of the Russian hack amounts to a Clinton/Podesta staffer falling for a phishing email

 

One thing that most people do realize, is that it doesn't excuse a rival, aggressive, foreign power from stealing documents, and trying to influence democracy in the United States.

Another thing that people might not realize is that it's sad and pathetic when people rush to make excuses for the hostile action by the foreign govt. on the United States and defend that government.

 

the point is foreign governments always try to disrupt our elections

In this case, there's zero evidence it affected the outcome. Hillary's gross negligent non-campaigning in PA/MI/WI did that.

 

If foreign govts. do try and steal documents, or anything else in an effort to undermine our democratic elections, it doesn't excuse this instance of it happening.

I've asked before for a list of all the other instances of foreign gvts. trying to undermine our elections. I have yet to see one. People keep saying it happens all the time, but I haven't seen the examples of it. Also even it does happen all the time, it doesn't excuse it. It's on you if you keep defending Russia at the expense of America.

 

With all the meddling the USA has done around the world for many many years, it just seems wrong for any American to complain about spying or meddling from another country. After the USA cleans up its act, then maybe we will have a right to complain.

 

Plenty of Americans have complained about the meddling the USA has done as well. Any and every nation has the right to complain when a foreign govt. tries to subvert democratic elections.

 

Always try? The last I saw was a report in 2015 that the Russian may try (or likely, can't recall) to undermine the credibility of Western governments, including the US and EU. They listed out many methods that the Russian were planning to use, including paid bloggers, hacking, etc.

The 2015 report came to be quite true, now that we know what happen to some extend. See, Intel does work.

Prior to Nov 7th, the stance was the same - undermining/weakening western democracy. In fact, weeks before the election, Intel briefings to Obama, Trump and Clinton was exactly this - hacks had occurred and for that purpose (side note - we know Trump didn't accept intel at that time or lie about it since he said he didn't think Russia was involved).

AFTER the election, with new evidences (we don't know what they are), now the CIA is saying they weren't just trying to undermine, they were trying to sway it to Trump favor.

The CIA (and all other intel agencies) said nothing about if it affected the outcome; I don't think anyone would know that, unless they have evidence of voting machine hacks, which there has not been any evidences of.

So the point is not only is Russia trying to (mid 2015) undermine US government, they tried to sway in Trump favor (Dec 2016).

People care about that kind of interference and this shouldn't be political. The focus should be a full investigation into what the Russian did, learn the lessons, apply it to prevent in the future, and if we should retaliate in anyway. Do you disagree that we should be doing these things?

 

If there was just one competent person in that entire tech chain through which the hacks went this would have been stopped. This just shows what a terribly run campaign it was. Lots of moronic contractors made out with a lot of money off of it though.

 

Not necessary true, but that's is one lesson to be learn. Security is very important. Most probably still take it for granted today.

 

You really would think the DNC would take security more seriously given that the candidate they rigged their primary election for was in the middle of a scandal involving putting national security at risk with just awful infosec violations. Hopefully they've learned their lesson.

 

NOT confirmed, but indicative. Simply having connections to the Russian government does NOT 'confirm' that the Russian government directed it. Further, there is no direct evidence of intent even assuming it was directed.

Yes, it may be their assessment, and that assessment might indeed be valid. BUT we still don't know. Circumstantial evidence, essentially. But, better than it was just a few weeks ago, which was mainly just rumor and innuendo.

I still don't see what Russia gets out of a Trump Presidency, other than a less hawkish view towards them (when was the last time that was true for a Republican President?). That is not necessarily a bad thing...nor is it necessarily a good thing. But, I can see how Russia would prefer someone fresh, with more of an eye on cooperation and trade.

Also, there isn't really any evidence that their attempts to sway the election, if indeed that was the case, had any significant impact anywhere.

Given that, I don't think the issue is so much that Russian may have tried get Trump elected. The bigger issue is that Russia hacked into sensitive documents. Security needs to be markedly improved. That should be the focus.

 

Nope, I agree. As you just informed us, the CIA and other agencies already concluded that Russians tried to influence the election for Trump. They have evidence that we just aren't allowed to see yet, which is fine as they surely couldn't be wrong.

So why do we need a full investigation again, are you saying the evidence we already have but can't see might not be good? That's backpedaling sir! If the information is good enough for all the msm to report on, and independent thinking individuals like you tell me its a fact they are interfering and this shouldn't be political at all, then I believe we should bring this to congress and skip right to retaliation on Russia.

So where do you think we should start, should we try generating some fake news in Russia, or maybe release some of Putin's emails? Nah, our country would never stoop so low as to release false information or hack email accounts, I guess our only form of retaliation must be be war. Well, world war 3 here we come!

So let's summarize, we know that clearly Russia did something, something clearly for Trump, something that swayed the election, something that left clear evidence, evidence that we can't see of course... but it's all true and we should all be outraged. PS, I guess we gotta do something about Trump, he clearly benefited!

Sometimes I wonder if you fools even hear yourself, the 1950s calling they want their talking points back.

 

Just checking in to be sure that this is a partisan issue and that we just gonna take it...

Cool. Party over country it is then....

 

Well given that the country wasn't attacked, just your party, I'd say of course it's a partisan issue.

 

That is likely to be the most important conclusion of the Senate investigation into this matter as well. The people running these networks were neglegent and all of this could have been avoided by taking the standard recommended procautions, that any competent network security professionals would have been able to recommend and implement.

 

Or is it sad and pathetic when posters rush to judgements and making accusations, when what said poster was doing is pointing out how absurdedly easily the hackers were able to break into our systems. Or....are you being sad and pathetic in making excuses for how ridiculously lax said security was? Or...both, it might seem?

The reality is that governments are going to try to manipulate what they can, when they can, whenever it is to their advantage. China and Russia (and many others I'm sure) attempt to steal our stuff all the time. I suspect the opposite is true as well..and if not, it probably should be. So, when in the presence of a known threat, does it make more sense for calling them out, or for increasing our security?

This, fwiw, is a really big part of why Clinton lost the election. Very hard to make the case that she is the one to fix these security issues, when she treats security so laxly herself. These were, after all, just emails, right? Why is that suddenly such a big issue? I thought we were off the dang emails, no?

The hypocrisy is an issue probably bigger than the hacking.

 

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/georgia/g...ays-cyberattacks-linked-back-to-dhs/475707667

?????

 

They aren't god. Of course they can be wrong. But they are our intelligence agencies and they are pretty good at what they do. When they said something, I don't see a reason to disagree, until there is evidences to suggest otherwise. That's where a full investigation comes in.

We should start with a full investigation. After that complete, next steps can be talk about.

It sounds like you don't even agree with that. Do you agree that we should have a full investigation? Or do you prefer that we just drop this and move on?