Pakistan suicide blast kills over 60 as Christian families gathered in the park to celebrate Easter

So you are basically telling me that a historical take on the prophet makes me a bigoted individual?

You know, I think I have a more vested interest than you in making sure innocent Muslims aren't ill treated. If you place the bar for bigotry as low as legitimate criticism of an ideology, then that's your problem.

I really don't understand how I should utilize your advice to avoid bigotry when I describe historical Muhammad? Should I state that the 'Jihadist' version of the history of Muhammad is only violent even though all the examples I provided of his transgressions against humanity are acknowledged by majority of Sunni scholars. I mean, you should hear some of the apologetic excuses they have for his actions. Some of them are rather desperate.

Also, how do we discuss legitimate problems within the Muslim Ummah like the percentage of Muslims globally that are fine with death for apostasy, blasphemy, adultery etc without tiptoeing around 'bigotry' playing by your rules of 'how to not disparage all Muslims'?

 

Instantly went there LOL.

this gon b good

 

I am disappointed by Deckard's comments, since I respect Deckard and expected less intellectual laziness.

 

Where the hell did I say that? Honestly, I could care less what you are. I'd just like to see the rhetoric dialed down a little from everyone when it comes to this topic. Tell you what. You guys go ahead and beat each other up, and I'll go over to the Bernie thread and tell glynch his hero isn't a Democrat. Again.

 

Let's say you convince everyone that Islam is inherently evil and anyone who reads the koran will likely become violent even though the vast majority of Muslims live non-violently.

Your assertion is that these polls that show significant number of Muslims accept death for apostasy means what? What are you trying to get at? That ISIS exists because Muslims get angry about cartoons and in backwards villages they kill for adultery? The fact that Muslim countries are still in the middle ages after being colonial subjects of European powers - is purely because of the Quran?

I am just trying to understand what you are asserting - what's your freaking point? What is it you want to do? Get everyone to fear Islam so we can spy on Muslims and ban them from the country? Is that your aim?

What I see is that in these right-wing-nut blogs everything thing gets spun to the most negative. There is a concerted effort to portray Muslims as pro-ISIS when the reality is that every Muslim country overwhelmingly view them negatively. So I am curious why instead of being relieved that all the Muslims oppose ISIS, instead you and ATW beat the drum that there are Muslims who do support ISIS and therefore Islam is a threat to us.

it makes one wonder what your aim is here.

 

My aim is for people not to blatantly shove their head in the sand and state it has nothing to do with Islam.

Why do we need to whitewash the historical Muhammad in order to appease the sensibility of Muslims?

 

I don't know why I bother. I have asked you show evidence of your claims against me in the climate threads. Why should I expect different now?

Who is saying these things you claim?

 

Honestly, I could not care less about Muhammad or what he was or what he did. I care as much as I do as I do about Jesus or any other supposed prophet.

Who are these people who are trying to appease the sensibility of Muslims? I don't have a problem with most Muslims. They seem to be honorable people who want the same things as the rest of humanity. I don't really get it.

I see crazy people burning the Koran and calling Islam evil - and I see that as pointless. It's not about offending Muslims, it's just about finding practical solutions to problems instead of wasting time pontificating about a guy who lived over a 1,000 years ago that only exists in a book.

It's a religion. As with any religion, there is a mythology built around it. People believe what they want out of it. If you want violence you can take anything and use it to support your violent tendencies. If you want peace, you can take the same thing and use it for that. Christianity is full of both types, and so is Islam.

I don't give a rat's arse about any of this stuff. All I know we got a big problem and it's getting worse, and this stupid stuff doesn't accomplish anything.

 

So you are basically taking the Resa Aslan approach and stating that the doctrine of the religion has no tangible results . So making a man who executed poets who dissented, raiding villages that dissented, married a 6 year old and had sex slaves as the best example of a moral human has no tangible consequences...

K, you keep on telling yourself it doesn't matter.

 

Is this what Muslim are taught about their religion? Is this what you were taught? That Muhammad had sex slaves and married a 6 year old? That is what is taught to Muslims??? Is that what you are saying?

 

Yes. There was no shying away from my Sunday school teachers teaching us that Aisha was 6 when Muhammad married her. We read of many of Muhammad's battles. Many of them were 'preemptive'. However, for the most part it was still relatively whitewashed since it was a moderate mosque in the United States.

Islamic schools overseas have no qualms teaching that notions like sex slavery or underage marriage as being perfectly acceptable. I can link you to many youtube videos of prominent Saudi mullahs justifying Muhammad's sex slavery and marriage with a 6 year old.

 

Well that's terrible if they actually teach people that stuff.

I still don't see how it explains ISIS and the fact that the vast majority of Muslims have an unfavorable view of ISIS.

 

I don't even know about this since enclaves of middle class Muslims seem to be perfectly okay with assisting in aiding and abetting a murderous terrorist in their boroughs. It's a the yin and the yang of what Muslims think the west deserves for military campaigns? I dunno.....

 

Mohammed was a historical figure a warlord - and politician. So many problems with his dictation - like the Satanic versus etc.

DD

 

A lot of folks died in that crash, really sad stuff.

May they find peace

 

So you were brought up as a Muslim? Are you still practicing today? No disrespect here, just curious. I value your input since you are easily more-versed in Islamic culture than most of us. Do you feel like Muslims in the U.S. are taught completely differently than in Europe/Asia/Africa. The reason I ask is because this video came across my feed a few days ago. Apparently, this came from Prager U - which I Always take with a grain of salt because it's typically very right wing.

As an American-raised Muslim, what are your thoughts on what this Muslim is saying? Is there any truth to this generally speaking?

 

So . . . merely asking if someone is Muslim could be disrespectful? Look how far gone we are already. . . .

 

no you've missed the point completely - which is why I used that phrase. People often read messages and texts in a completely different tone than it was written. It's the reason why my wife can read a text and think its an attack on her & I'll read the same text and disagree completely. My objective is to have a non-antagonistic discussion and to get an honest opinion. I put that phrase in there to let him know that I didn't mean to be antagonistic in case the tone of my words came across wrong.

 

About your video: it shows us American bigots are saying exactly the same thing as Muslim imams.

According to the guy in the video, the imams taught him the evil belief: "We were not western, we were not British, we were Muslim."

So the imams, HoneyPoser, AroundTheWorld, Dei, and some others all are preaching the same ignorant hate.