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Want a BIG Point and a BIG Forward? Be BOLD. No Assembly (or Trade) Required.

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by CB4ever, Oct 14, 2003.

  1. CB4ever

    CB4ever Member

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    The BIG Point Guard:

    The argument is not new (ie moving Steve to the 2 guard). IMO, the benefits of freeing the mind of an offensive machine to do what comes naturally are as BIG as the growth of Yao's game. To be able to say: "Steve Francis, when you catch the ball in this offense... just make plays and finish." I drool at the thought.

    But without a BIG (6'4"+) Guard to complement Steve on defense, on a JVG principled team... let's just say your ass would be flapping in the wind. IMO, besides being BIG, the Rockets PG should have this job description:

    1) Get into our sets quickly: ie Ming or Francis receive the ball with > 10 seconds on the shot clock.

    2) Plus (+) catch-and-shoot skills. Plus (+) catch-and-slash skills.

    3) A versatile defensive presence. Takes the "tough guard" on the defensive end, 1 or 2.

    4) An attitude and understanding that for this team, the offense runs through Ming and Francis.

    There have been many names thrown around: Jamaal Tinsley, Alvin Williams, Jamal Crawford. Good players, they fit many of the criteria... but they are currently on other rosters. Do we have a candidate currently on the team?

    Bold Move #1: Play Cuttino Mobley at the Point Guard position.

    Do you think he has or can achieve the right, team-first attitude? Do you feel his ability fits the job description? Would he view this as a demotion? Would JVG care? How is his post entry? Has he ever played point for a team that's started its offense primarily in the post? Can Mobley accept change?? Hmm... I'll let the debate play out, but I think he can.

    The BIG Power Forward:

    Most everyone agrees with the concept: a tenacious, defensive-minded, rebounding enforcer for Yao.
    And that, in a few words, is the job description.

    As much as I feel relieving PG duties would "free" Francis, I believe that a physical presence at the 4 would "unlock" Yao Ming - offensively and defensively.

    The popular objects of the 1,000,000,000 offseason trade threads: Brian Grant, Antonio Davis, Kurt Thomas, et al. Again, good players, but why not scan your own roster. (hint: JVG already has)

    Bold Move #2: Play Kelvin Cato 20+ minutes at the Power Forward position next to Yao Ming.

    Ahh, JVG already tinkering with this line-up. Not a new concept - so it's not too much of a stretch, right? Good. How about 20+ minutes (a majority of Yao's court time)? Will it work defensively with mobile 4's? Is Cato in good enough shape? Will it work offensively? (Answer: Can Cato dunk and be an Offensive Rebounding threat?) (Better answer: Do you ever want to see Eddie Griffin on the block or at the 3pt line when Yao Ming and Steve Francis are on the court?) So wait, this is Kelvin Cato we're talking about?? Yup.

    What do you think? You don't get to use Real GM, but it may be just as rewarding. ;)
     
    #1 CB4ever, Oct 14, 2003
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2003
  2. sweetie

    sweetie Member

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    Wont work. Cuttino sucked as a pg in 1999,plus even now doesnt know how to pass. What we need is a guy who is big enough to guard sg,but enough passing skills to be a point guard. I loooooooove crawford. Man I would trade alot of people on this team for him. Even Steve if they threw in Chandler. But I know Artest would work to. He is 6'7 long arms but is quick enough to play pg. Steve/Cuttino backcourt will never make the playoffs mark my words. Just look at history. They win 45 games in 2001 ,but add Ming and still dont improve. Kinda fishy. Thats because Ming only takes 10 freakin shots a game. Whos fault is that? Rudy? No way. Rudy knows how to use a big man. Our guards have slow timing and vision. I think I figured it out. Most great guards can see the whole floor and all their teammates. Im convinced Cat and Steve only have their eyes focused on 1 thing and thats the defender in front of them only trying to do iso.
     
  3. Bailey

    Bailey Veteran Member

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    I thought that he was serviceable actually.
     
  4. CB4ever

    CB4ever Member

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    What was Cuttino's job description as PG back then? Are you sure he sucked at it? Did Hakeem and/or Barkley not get the ball enough?

    I agree that now Cat doesn't look to pass much. But don't you want that "finishing" mentality from your 2 guard? IMO, our problem is that we're playing our best 2 guard at the point. How dangerous would Francis be if he could play with that "finishing" mentality all the time (Instead of "trying to hit home runs" with the shot clock running down)??

    I'd wager that Francis' assists would not drop much. He'd get 5 alone on instinctive drive-and-dish plays. I'd also wager he'd dribble much less. At the 1, Francis dribbles trying to figure out sets that have been broken or compromised by the defense. At the 2, you give him ONE purpose in the offensive half-court: to make plays (ie finish or draw-and-find). To me that's Francis' calling in life ;).
     
    #4 CB4ever, Oct 14, 2003
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2003
  5. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    If you are considering Rocket conversions only, then why not think about using Jim Jackson at the point? He's tall, strong, has quick feet and is a good passer.
     
  6. jmz

    jmz Member

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    With all the experimentation in the preseason, I would also try Jim Jackson as the point gaurd. After that I would try JJ as the point forward. Maybe we should start a new thread...use Jim Jackson as the point whatever.
     
  7. HotRocket

    HotRocket Member

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    Cat is what, 1 inch taller? He would not be an improvement in the "BIG" department. Besides, there are times where Cat takes the ball up on his own, sometimes just as much as Steve (in certain quarters.)

    Now, maybe if you suggested having Yao as our PG, I might think about it. Yes we would be slow, but can you imagine him posting up someone more than a foot and a half shorter than him? ;)
     
  8. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    BACK UP CENTER

    With Cato and Ming on the court together
    WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY GO OUT???

    MoT and Griff is QUITE the defensive and rebounding let down

    Rocket River
     
  9. We're Back

    We're Back Member

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    What about Yao as PG? I know it sounds crazy, but he is fundementaly sound. It would allow Stevie to move to the 2, Cat could be our 6th man and Cato could slide right onto the starting lineup. Definitely something to think about.
     
  10. dookiester

    dookiester Member

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    i like that. yao at pg, francis at the 2, piat at sf, clutch the bear as our BIG PF, and mike wilks as our big center.
     
  11. Fegwu

    Fegwu Member

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    You are correct IMHO.

    This does not mean I agree with this thread initiator's opinion though.
     
  12. A-Train

    A-Train Member

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    I could run the point with Hakeem, Barkley, and Pippen in the frontcourt...I'm only 5'7", though. :(
     
  13. mr_gootan

    mr_gootan Member

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    How about point-man in the post like the Harlem Globetrotters?
    Meadowlark Ming?
     
  14. Yetti

    Yetti Member

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    Glad to see someone is thinking in a positive direction. There is one flaw in your suggestion Mobley is the #1 Black Hole on the Roster much more so than Steve! In the case of Steve, he 'CAN' be a great traditional Point Guard,he showed just how good in the last All Star Game. Steve needs to be humble and respect his team-mates like he respected the All Stars. Inother words JVG needs only to get Steve to reset his thinking and priorities and we have our Point Guard. In the case of Mobley its a much more difficult conversion.
     
  15. CB4ever

    CB4ever Member

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    Allright!! Several great ideas here. Love it when people think. In no particular order:

    Issue #1) Two monkeys and My grandma could have played point for Hakeem and Barkley, so of course Cuttino did an O.K. job
    Brought up by A-Train, Bailey and Fegwu. (Oh, no offense w/ the monkey reference, A-Train :p)

    Heck, Matt Maloney looked so good playing pitch-to-the-All-Star that the Rockets just got done paying him. I'm not saying our post presence compares to Hakeem/Barkley. And, zone era has complicated post entry. (Which, btw, was brought about by Barkley in the post with... who as his PG? Oh yeah, Mobley.) But our offense will clearly center around the post.

    The Point is that when you start inside out, the PG's responsibilities are basic. Get the team in its set quickly. He is not primarily a creator. He is not even the main post entry man (I like Pike there).

    A ton of college PG's (eg Mike Wilks) could do this quickly and efficiently. IMO, Francis at the 1 is too talented for his own good. He occasionally lacks the 100% commitment to the simple play because he sees possibilities to create. Also, any coach would call his number or give him rein to take open shots. I mean, Francis is our most talented backcourt finisher!! There's an inherent conflict to an inside-out (cut the bull, inside-out means post emphasis) philosophy when your point can take anyone off the dribble and create his own shot whenever he wants. This is not an indictment of Steve; I just feel he is not in the best position to succeed.

    Which brings us to options, one being a positional flip-flop...

    Issue #2) Can Mobley re-adjust to the Point?
    In a word: Yes.
    The sell: We put the ball in your hands. You're never lost in the shuffle. You get it up the court and get rid of it quickly or look to set up mates off the PNR. You are my backcourt stopper. My "Glove" on D. You take most of your shots and penetration after the ball comes back out.

    Yetti, you called Mobley a black hole. I agree... at the 2 guard. It is priority #1, 2 and 3 to finish. I agree that at the 2 he does not give it up enough, but Mobley, out of all the Rockets, has shown the greatest capacity for change: he almost exclusively "isos" and shoots after the ball has been moved around first. He gives more effort on D. Think about it - 2 years ago he had as many as 50% of the plays called for him. Now he may get 10%.

    Don't underestimate Mobley just because his offensive talent should no longer be option #1 or #2.

    Issue #3) Jimmy J at the Point
    Brought up by thumbs and jmz.

    I really like this suggestion and it gets to the basic gist: Francis as an offensive 2 guard is efficient and UNSTOPPABLE. Imagine the devastation when the ball comes out to him on ball rotation. This guy routinely penetrates against 1-2 set defenders + help. Now imagine if his man were sagging to help, the defense moving to catch up to the ball. Francis would lay waste to the weakside. Even if his man doesn't leave, who can guard Francis 1-on-1??

    Jim Jackson would be great as Point Forward in this offense. I'm basically saying Mobley should be the Point "Combo Guard," if you will. I'd love it if they both got us into our offense. I just think the more you keep Mobley involved, the better he plays at both ends. Imo, Cat's a "high usage" player (productivity increases with involvement) and Jackson is a "Glue and flow" player (keeps the offense going in its natural progression whenever he touches the ball). Funny, he used to get the "selfish" rap much like.... Cuttino Mobley.
     
    #15 CB4ever, Oct 14, 2003
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2003
  16. Apollo Creed

    Apollo Creed Contributing Member

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    I'm surprised that I'm saying this, but I'm really on board with this idea. I think Mobley is willing to re-adjust to a different role alot faster than Steve would. In a perfect world, Steve would do exactly what he's supposed to for the point guard, but I'm starting to warm to the idea of Francis at the 2 guard.
     
  17. CB4ever

    CB4ever Member

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    Why thanks, "Black Guy from the movie Predator."

    I would be happy to vote for you as governor in the state of your choosing.

    Re: Mobley as initiator and Steve off the ball, I seem to recall Rudy experimenting with it occasionally last year, but it was spotty at best.

    (Oh, if you didn't see SNL, J. Ventura and Ahhnold = governors from Predator. Carl Weathers stumps for office as "The Black Guy from the Movie Predator." Drops a line with Apollo and every other character he's ever played. Good stuff ;) )
     
  18. AMS

    AMS Member

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    very intruiging, but i dont see it happening. plain and simple
     
  19. DavidS

    DavidS Member

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    Bring in Brent Barry.
     
  20. CB4ever

    CB4ever Member

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    Well, it seems like Bold Move #2) Cato at the 4 for extended minutes may end up being a move of necessity. With Taylor down for a while and Eddie going Tito Maddox on the Rockets, Cato will get a long look next to Yao.

    What did you think of the game tonight? They played a lot of minutes side-by-side.
    Frankly, what I saw for the most part convinced me this will work.

    Rocket River, with 20+ minutes at the 4, Cato can still be the primary back-up for Ming (5-10 minutes) or JVG seems to appreciate Amaechi's offensive game. I could see the bloke getting 5-10 minutes at the 5 as well.
     

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