He was claimed by an NL team or MIN, TB, LAA or OAK. He did not reach the Astros. In fact, he did not reach the White Sox.
Astros thought process seems to be more risk adverse than "go big". I don't see it as Martes or someone like Ordrozzi. It is more like "and". Martes is going to be needed to replace whoever gets hurt next year. Archer, to me, seems more likely if Astros "go big" as the Rays seem to value prospects and costs similar to the Astros. I would love Sale, but I expect some other team that values prospects/cost less than Astros will make a better offer or White Sox will keep him.
I overall agree with you, especially the part of the front office being averse to going big thus far. I am just hoping that they are just being selective and opportunistic, and they will go big when they feel the time is right. I am also hoping that this offseason is when they view the time right to go big. That is obviously just baseless speculation on my part, but one can hope right? I also see your point on Martes, but if we use him to acquire a ToR guy like Sale or Archer, then his loss doesn't hurt as much (still hurts though). With either Sale or Archer, our starting rotation for next year is: Sale or Archer Keuchel McCullers McHugh Musgrove And they are young/cost-controlled enough where that could be our rotation for the next several years, barring injury of course). With Fiers as the long-man/spot starter. Additionally, we would also have pitching prospects such as David Paulino for more immediate help in 2017, as well as Albert Abreu and Forrest Whitley, who are both further away from the big leagues. So yes, we will have to replace Martes if we trade him, but I do feel that we still have a lot of talent in the pitching pipeline.
Martes and Tucker are two of the top 50 prospects in baseball, so I don't think any team would laugh at a proposal that started there, even for Sale. Now, I could see teams wanting more or wanting big league ready pieces, but I don't think they'd laugh. The package I proposed would be what I would expect to have to give for an Archer or Gray, but probably not enough for Sale.
Fair, I didn't mean to offend you with "they would laugh at the offer." I should re-word it to say "the White Sox would probably say no thank you."
The Astros wouldn't be willing to include Bregman in a deal for an ace pitcher, and likely wouldn't need to anyway.
Giving up Martes, Tucker, Feliz, Tucker, and Kemp for a SP would leave the system looking like this: 25 man roster: RF Springer 3B Bregman 2B Altuve SS Correa LF TBD DH Gurriel C Gattis/TBD 1B Reed/Marwin CF Teoscar/Marisnick Rotation: ToR SP Keuchel McCullers Musgrove McHugh Bullpen: Devenski, Fiers, Hoyt, TBD lefty, Sipp, Harris, Gregerson, Giles AAA rotation: Rodgers, Paulino, Hauschild, Yuhl, Holmes, Frias Top 10 prospects: 1. Whitley 2. L. Gurriel 3. Fisher 4. Paulino 5. Perez 6. Cameron 7. Abreu 8. Sierra 9. Celestino 10. Davis Stacked roster, healthy above average farm, low payroll.
If I'm the Astros, my first call is to Arizona to see if they'd be willing to part with Shelby Miller. The Diamondbacks are a disaster and need to replenish their farm. And Luhnow would know a lot about Miller, since the Cardinals drafted him on his watch. He's been terrible this year - but he's 25 and under club control through '19 (if not mistaken). Also, if the Astros are going to call the White Sox, any one else think Quintana might be a better get? Cheaper, both in terms of cash and possible trade assets, and, frankly, he's having a better season than Sale. Track record not as good - but that's why he could potentially be cheaper.
Over the last 3 years, the difference in results isn't much between the 2 (3.17 to 2.94 for Sale). Sale has flashier numbers, but Quntana has actually been more reliable, don't think he's missed a single start over the last 4 years. Quintana has an extra year of control, and to the best of my knowledge isn't a locker room problem. Honestly, I might prefer Quintana straight up regardless of prospect cost, so I don't imagine he will be all that much cheaper to acquire.
please no on Shelby. He has been a disaster this year.. but many predicted it. His peripherals never backed him up as a ToR starter. If he regains form, he's middle of the rotation at best...which we have in spades already. I would be a fan of Quintana though. I would love it if he was cheaper, but my general impression (no specific article I can point to) is that they think of him in the same way as Sale from a cost perspective. He's not quite as good--but has been extremely consistent for multiple years now, and is paid less.
Sale is better; better ERA, WHIP, ERA+, WAR... He's been a league-leader in several categories and has finished top 6 in CY voting each of the last four years. Brand and recognition - while likely to resonate more with fans - can still be a significant factor in trades. And, as such, I have to think Sale is *perceived* as having much more value. Now, that may work against the Astros, in that the Sox may see Sale as the whale with Quintana as a nice piece to build around.
