I'm sorry that is incorrect. Again all these answers are already in the book and pretty clear how he was not sinning. Christ explains several times that how is it sinful to do righteousness on the Sabbath. The pharisees were blinded by jealousy while trying to create devilish ways to trick him into admitting he was wrong, but the pharisees were the ones who were wrong Mat 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath days? that they might accuse him. Mat 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? Mat 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. He is explaining that doing righteousness on the Sabbath is not actually breaking any law, This is an example of men thinking they know best and are above the LORD and his works.
Excellent post and I agree 100%. you have to forgive Franchiseblade. He was raised as a Christian although sometimes I think he misses the mark on interpretation. I do however give him props props trying both publicly and privately. Just as I so so to you in both ways!!!!
I believe the Old Testament says that one should not do work on the Sabbath. Jesus, in the passages you cite, says "it is lawful to do well in the sabbath days." Both of you are correct, it seems to me. Jesus is adding a caveat or clarification to the literal words of the commandment regarding working on the Sabbath, by saying doing work is allowed so long as it constitutes a good deed. For one who believes that Jesus has the authority to make such amendments to the laws as given in the Old Testament, this is not a problem. He is merely clarifying God's intent. But for someone who is not predisposed to believe he has such an authority, it seems like he did clearly break the law and is merely providing an excuse. After all, how does one decide if work qualifies as a good deed or not? If I'm working for the livelihood of my family, does that not qualify as "doing well"?
Wow the guy in the video does absolutely nothing to prove his point. His just states utter opinion based BS for the entire video. You would think he would at least try to prove his point. That makes you look like a fool which is a common fallacy amongst people trying disprove the Bible. Shame on you trying to post a video to prove a point you have absolutely no clue about. Google is not always your friend if you do not understand what you are searching for. Please do your own research before posting random BS videos so you can vet them before posting them. It will make you look smarter. Look at the videos in the provided link. There are four of them. They provide facts to backup what they are saying. Fact Based Answers instead of Utter BS
What he is actually saying here is that doing the ( work ) of righteousness is not the same kind of work as say for example choosing to plow a field on the Sabbath for your own gain. You are looking at this book with a Fleshly view (meaning this worlds mindset, instead of Heavens)The Bible is for those who seek salvation after this world not in it. Even though the word is the same it is not intended to be used as in a comparable context. Christ also explains that each and every one of his Sabbath day heals were designed and set up by GOD to prove this same accusation you are confused about now. Jhn 9:1 ¶ And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. Jhn 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jhn 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. Jhn 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work So every heal was literally for this accusation to prove man is wrong with how they view righteousness. You should have no day off from trying to do righteousness. Do the police take breaks and become criminals for a day( good cops at least ) ? no. also would you turn demonic for a lazy day? no. The key is the healings were set up to disprove this very problem with believers and none believers.
So there is being righteous by not actively committing sin. Clearly that's fine. Then there is being righteous by actively doing good deeds. This is where I think it gets a bit murky. You say that doing work, like ploughing a field, for one's own gain (i.e., Earthly, material gain) does not count as a good deed. OK, what if its work that helps not only oneself, but others? For example, volunteering at a hospital? And if that's allowed, what about doing important work that helps many unfortunate people while also getting paid for it? That is also good work, but with some compensation. Would that be OK as well?
It's a cultural expression. Same as "God bless you" or "Thank God" or "May God help you". An atheist does not believe in God but the sentiment remains the same. Belief in God is not a prerequisite to meaning what the sentences mean. As a matter of fact, it never occurred to me that "Rest in peace" was religious at all. I thought it just meant that now that you're dead you are free from the turmoil of life.
I didn't read this whole thread so forgive me of I'm repeating other's statements and thoughts. To me, the Old Testament is just as important to "Christianity" and the Bible as the New Testament. It starts off with the words "In the beginning" and goes on to show how God created the world and us as he originally planned. We were always meant to live in peace and harmony, free of sickness, disease, deformities and even death. We had abundance... to freely have of all that was there. That was until sin entered the world when Adam and Eve took of the Tree of Good and Evil. They wanted to play God and know all instead of just resting in His love and provisions. The rest of the Old testament is God's plan to redeem (or to save) us from the strong hold of all the sin can bring. Even look up the meaning of the names in Genesis 5 (which shows the genealogy from Adam to Noah). Put the meaning in order and it spells it all out "Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest." It's pretty cool. The law (commandments) were given just to show us we needed a savior because we can not in no way satisfy them all on our own. Which is the whole point... Old Testament and New Testament both revolve around and point to Jesus. He is our savior and displayed pure love for each and every one of us to save our souls. We are no longer bound by sin and the effects of it (guilt, condemnation, sickness, etc). All we have to do it rest (believe) in Jesus and we are eternally saved. That's it. No rituals, no obligations, no rules... just believe. He conquered sin, He conquered the Devil and He conquered death.... for you and for me. Many look at God like he's Zeus, sitting in the clouds with a lightning bolt ready to strike all who disobey or anger Him. But in fact, He's a loving father wanting to provide and have a close relationship with each of us. He could have wiped us all out with one word. But he has constantly showed grace, mercy and love. The Bible is a beautiful love story.
How i am able to tell ones true intentions( not what you are trying to convince yourself) for the things they do? Only you, GOD and CHRIST know why you are choosing to do the thing you are doing.
And all of that is against the letter of the law from the old testament. That's what Madmax was asking you.
I think his point is there is good reason to be skeptical over the accuracy of the Bible's portrayal of Jesus's life as a historical document. His arguments are persuasive, assuming his claims about the early manuscripts from which the Bible was put together are true. I didn't find he is just spouting opinions, but rather making factual claims which can be challenged and disproven. Do you believe the claims he was making are inaccurate? For instance: 1. The earliest manuscripts we have for Mark are full of errors/inconsistencies, and therefore we can't be confident in the accuracy of Mark as it is rendered today. 2. Jesus is not mentioned in any known Greek or Roman source until 80s years after his death. And he is mentioned only once in any Jewish source in the 60 years after his death. The only sources we have for Jesus and his deeds that were of his time are Christian sources.
Well, this helps answer my question, but only somewhat. That it is a matter of one's true intentions. So, is it fair to say that if a person's true intentions in doing work on the Sabbath is to help others, then it should be fine based on the example of Jesus Christ? And the additional question is whether its fine if one's intentions are to help others in addition to helping his or her self as a bonus (i.e., good humanitarian work with some monetary compensation)?
Easy fix. Do you believe you are able to discern right from wrong? good and bad? Choosing to serve people food on the Sabbath to help feed the needy that provides you no gain is sometime i would consider righteous, but choosing to serve people food on the Sabbath to impress a girl, would not. a good way of measurement would be if you find yourself having to justify a reason for you to do it or if that something turns out to be more of a benefit to you than a good deed towards someone else. Hope that helps a little.
Serving food on the Sabbath is a good thing but will not get anyone into Heaven. No works can only belief in Jesus Christ can do that. I do not say that to disagree with you but only wanted to add to your point to avoid confusion to non-believers. Peace my friend!!!
No I do not believe what he said. He gave absolutely no proof. he literally only gave opinions.(inaccurate ones I might add) You obviously did not watch the four videos in the link I provided. I am unable to embed them so I apologize. I watched your video at least you could watch mine before making more comments.
So you can have an atheist that helps other people all his life while living on modest means and not go to heaven vs being a terrible ass-hole but saying Christ is Lord and get to heaven?
OK. Thanks for the extra clarification. Yes, I think I see the point. The fact that its a "good deed" doesn't earn you extra "Heaven" points, it just prevents you from committing sin by having worked on the Sabbath. More generally, am I correct in saying that being a "good person" by helping others is its own reward for the believer, and is not a factor in whether one goes to Heaven? I kind of like that idea -- that one shouldn't do good out of selfish reasons (e.g., as a means to atone for sin), but simply for the pleasure of helping others.
Four videos in exchange for one? Is that fair? OK, I will watch the first, at least, and let you know my thoughts. But I do hope you can then provide more pointed critique of Ehrman's argument, because it seemed pretty compelling to me (again, assuming the disprovable claims he was making are true).
The reason why most people (including many Christians!) misunderstand the old testament is that they approach everything from the mindset of performance. Jesus was making the point that simply religiously following the law did not make a person good, and that in fact most religious people were using religion as a tool to mask hypocrisy and pursue self-serving interests (sound familiar?). There's a reason why there were all these sacrifices and stuff - it's because no human being was ever going to be capable of following all the commandments. The point of the law/old testament was to prove that man is and always will be inadequate, and to reveal Jesus as the eventual solution. Jesus came to fulfill the requirements that no other man could, so that everyone could be free from its constraints, gain adoption into God's family through faith in Him, and then be free to do good things through Him.
