6-6 while beating 20 50 win teams. LeBron has now played longer than Jordan and has beaten 9. 3 of those are Western Coference teams so: Jordan went through 14 50+ win EC opponents in 179 playoff games. LeBron has beaten 6 50+ win EC opponents in 199 playoff games. Off the top of my head, i don't think any of those 6 have HOF'ers unless Derrick Rose still gets in which i doubt. Paul George maybe, but Bron beat him before he was the Paul George we all know. Chauncey Billups? Yeah i guess you can count Billups...Oh yeah i guess there's JKidd and Vince Carter on the 41 win Nets. Yeah and as for the whole Jordan couldn't win til he had HOF players. Pippen was traded for on Draft day. He took several seasons to develop. Jordan lost in the semi finals to the Pistons with Pippen and Grant as rookies: 10ppg, 5rpg, 2apg Scottie Pippen HOF help, Horace Grant 10ppg, 7rpg HOF help. Jordan then had the Bulls in the ECF again vs the Pistons with sophmore Pippena and Grant. 13, 7.6, 3.9 Pippen HOF help, Grant 11 and 10 HOF help. They were all just starting to come into their own by their 3rd year where they lost to the Pistons again in the ECF Game 7. Of course the rest is history. Those Pistons were a single game away from Three Peating. So if you are sitting there telling me LeBron would beat them with those same young non all star versions of Pippen and Grant, you're full of ****. He'd probably get the organization to trade them for win now players. You're even crazier if you think LeBron is going to lead Orlando Wooldridge, rookie Charles Oakley and John Paxson past the Bird Celtics 2 different times or miss nearly 2 full seasons and come back and lead the Bulls with no front line help past Shaq, Penny and Horace Grant. Let me guess? LeBron can guard anyone? He'd guard Shaq himself?
I think people really underestimate the talent on that Houston team. We had 6 legit good players not including hakeem: Thorpe, Max, Kenny, Sam, Horry, Elie.
2 rookies, an undafted journeyman, an inefficient chucker, a former All star on a bad team, the pg on that bad team. If LeBron won with that roster, we'd all be tuned in to ESPN watching his canonization by the Pope as the first living saint.
lol i'm simply debating whether or not Rodman could have been considered as a max player in today's NBA terms. nowhere did i bring Irving and/or Love into my reply.
I'm not saying that the Cavs would get "owned" by OKC or Spurs. I am saying that we can consider that they are about equal to them. But if the Warriors/Thunder/Spurs/Cavs are equal, then that tells me that you have at most a 25% chance of reaching the NBA finals right? Only one of those four teams can make it! So that means a 75% change of not reaching the finals. So if the Cavs are in the West and have a 75% of NOT reaching the finals, then it is fair to say that if Cavs are in the East they might not even come out of the West EVEN IF THEY ARE JUST AS GOOD AS THE OTHER Western teams. On the Eastern Conference however, the Cavs do NOT have a team that is its equal. They are much better than all of the other teams including the Raptors. Barring fluke events like major injuries, etc. no one can seriously claim that the Cavs in the East have only a 25% chance of reaching the finals. In fact, it is probably like 90%. 90% >>>> 25%
I meant to say: So that means a 75% change of not reaching the finals. So if the Cavs are in the West and have a 75% of NOT reaching the finals, then it is fair to say they might not even come out of the West EVEN IF THEY ARE JUST AS GOOD AS THE OTHER Western teams.
the main problem with lebron is anybody can beat the him in the final. that didn't happen with jordan. maybe he'll win more titles but if in between he also loses to the likes of westbrook and harden, that's no very good. imagine a bunch of players say that i beat the GOAT in the final in his prime. that being said, he's top 5 no doubt.
I don' know but with out putting a ton of thought into it, I start my greatest of all time with this list. In no particular order: Wilt Magic Bird Oscar Kareem Dream Shaq MJ Duncan Not sure who I'm leaving out. IMO, Lebron doesn't leap frog any of the ones on this list. But the fact that I'm using this list as a measuring stick for him shows that I think he is pretty damn good. HOF and maybe the best player of his generation.
The problem with ranking him right this moment is that people are still on the championship euphoria. 4 games ago he was not in alot of people's top 5 and now he is closing in on 2 if not one. My guess is if Lebron loses next season he will drop back down the list. This is what happens when you are still in the league and nothing is set. Reminds me when Kobe just won his 5th championship and alot of people (or maybe just laker fans) were crowning him equal or better than Jordan. At the end of the day you just have to appreciate the love/hate dynamic fans bring to these comparisons.
do you realize that he needs to go 4/4 in order to go 7/11 overall? that's almost impossible because he needs to get a lot better at the age of 31. if he does that somehow, of course he's the GOAT.
I think the new generation is underrating Bird because he's white, and I say that as a Hispanic. Bird was in the 50-40-90 club before elite shooting was emphasized (3pt line was new), and before all the modern sports equipment, trainers, doctors, etc. Bird was a much better shooter, just as good of a passer, LeBron is more athletic but that's not to say that Bird wasn't (there are several vids of Bird dunking). If you had prime Bird and prime LeBron it would depend on whether your team needs more physicality and defense or more shooting and passing. I mean LeBron couldn't shoot at all the first 2 games of the finals and then made a couple of 3s which helped his drives to the hoop after.
Yeah he didn't quit on his team, he quit on the whole sport to play baseball, then came running back when it turned out he sucked in baseball.
Yeah that didn't happen to MJ because despite a career of more than 10 years he only went to the Finals 6 times, the other times his team got eliminated before the finals. Why is Lebron getting to more Finals held against him? Getting to the Finals is harder than getting to the ECF or wherever MJ or Kobe got elminated, right? Imagine Spurs saying well we beat Lebron in the finals and Detroit saying well we beat MJ 9 times straight in the ECF, which is worse?
But they won the championship how can they be "just as good as Western teams"? They also had a winning record against the West how can they be "just as good as Western teams"? Your percentages only apply if the winner is put into a hat and then is drawn lottery style, in real life it does not work out that way why is GSW who broke the regular season record and Cavs who has the best player in the entire world only have the same chance as winning as Spurs and OKC? They are obviously a tier above the other teams, as shown by GSW making it all the way to the finals and Cavs beating GSW to win the ring. Of course there is always a chance they will lose but if you delve into what if's you will never get anywhere, that same what ifs you apply to the Cavs would also apply to other teams what if GSW faced Cavs in the first round, Bogut would've been injured and they wouldn't even advance etc. Trying to discredit the Cavs due to a hypothetical scenario is just dumb, well what if Curry was born in Africa as a child of blood diamond miners, would he still break the NBA 3 pt record? Curry being born in a 3rd world country has as much chance of Cavs being placed in the Western conference which is why your argument is just pointless, to be perfectly honest.
Larry Bird was a great player. A sure-fire top 10 guy, and arguably top 5. LBJ is still better. Despite the fact that Bird was a better natural shooter, LBJ actually has the better career TS%. Bird was a very physical player. Very tough nosed.
Bird is considered a basketball savant b/c he didn't bring elite athleticism to the table so he had to understand shooting, spacing, passing, positioning, leadership, toughness, etc. Don't get me wrong - he was immensely gifted physically to be a big guy who could bang down low and be the most clutch outside shooter of his ERA yet also a magician of a passer. There-in is the rub: Prime Lebron encompasses all of those intangibles (I think this is not specifically the right word but you get my point) as Bird did above but he does it with uber-elite athleticism which is what enables him to run the floor the way he does, play defense on 1-4 - shutdown MVP DRose a few years ago, shutdown MVP Curry this year, etc etc. Both are incredible players, but the lionshare of Bird's skillset - save shooting - is redundant within Lebron's, and Lebron's athleticism is tiers above Bird's whereas Bird's shooting - while incredible - is offset b/c of LBJ's own remarkable finishing skills and consequentially excellent Shooting percentages over the years. LBJ>Bird. LBJ - for my money - will be #1 all-time by the time he retires assuming he wins another 2 championships in the next 5 years.
