Religion is the worst evolutionary trait in human history

Its amazing how much through history people begin to intertwine religion, nationalism, culture, and all sorts of other things so that it is impossible to tell where one starts and the other ends. People who defend religion tend to want to do so in the abstract, as though it is an isolated thing. But the problem begins where it makes contact with the greater world and is incorporated into it.

The thing about religion is that it is the ultimate appeal to authority argument. "Nobody would listen to what I have to say, but I'm speaking for the creator of the universe, and this is what he told me he wants you to do."

It gives power to little people. I don't think inherently religion is terrible, but it has a whole lot of power over some people, and with any powerful tool the power can inherently be powerfully misused. Its a lot like guns in that way. Its power lets bad people convince the masses to do bad things that they wouldn't do if they didn't hear from this intermediary (and believe) that the all-powerful creator of the universe and everything good wanted them to do it.

For the most part, the problem is that this God (whichever version) doesn't directly speak to people conversationally, but requires self appointed fallible human authorities to translate what he wants for him.

 

The facts are that there is no logical explanation for existence and there never will be. It is impossible to know.

The fact is our reality - the universe, time and space itself - are irrational paradoxes. Reality itself isn't rational, and at some point everything that has been done - every thing mankind has accomplished good or bad will either be ripped apart into oblivion or crushed together into oblivion - that our lives and existence is actually no more significant that than of a rock or light beam - literally - then believing in god is a most rational and logical conclusion as it is far more sane than reality.

The problem is not religion. The problem is how much people hold so tightly onto it for the fear of facing the possibility that their lives and everyone else's is actually in vain - which would probably not be great.

 

Hilarious

Remove religion and I guarantee you something else will take its place

Facism - not religion killed 6 Million Jews
Capitalism - enslaved and killed over 100 Million Africans
Communism - Killed 45 million Chinese and 22 Million Russians

Christianity is not firing off Drone Strikes on a weekly basis
Nor did it pour millions of gallons of oil in the gulf of Mexico

Which Religion dropped two nuclear bombs on Japan?

Hilarity ensues

Religion isn't the problem . . . it is merely the scapegoat
Remove all religion from the world. . . . sh** will continue to happen
They will just use another excuse

Rocket River

 

the point of christianity is that IF you believe in the miracles of jesus, and accept the life and teachings of jesus than you will understand that he chose to let men have free will. the devil came to him and recommended to him that he turn stones into bread so that he could control starving people. the devil affirmed that jesus could lead mankind, because he was a superior being capable of miracles and that mankind would simply bow down to him in all of his greatness. but jesus wasnt interested in controlling humans. what he knew was that he would die on the cross for human's sins, and that eventually man would sin so much and become so lost in reality that the lost sheep would return to their shepherd.

the reason im going into this story is because of its logic- its the idea that humans are lost without religion.

human's respond well to religion because they want to feel comfortable in moving on into the afterlife. this prevents sin more than anything, the beliefs internalized control human beings more effectively than secular rules. faith becomes apart of a human being's identity, this is why faith is so powerful.

its much easier to control someone whenever they truly believe something, and have absolute faith in something that is telling them they're going to heaven.

without faith though, religion begins to lose its effectiveness.

its the argument that should the pinnacle of human society be a secular state or a religious state? maybe a bit of both, maybe religion should be cast into the corner while secularism takes center stage?

we tend to think that the evolution of humanity will move away from the religious state and evolve into the secular one. but could it be the other way around?

lets imagine that we lived in a world 200 years from now where every human being on earth attained a PHD, and we lived under one world government that is purely secular- lets say... communism- would that solve the problem of man's tendency to sin? a human being's urge to do what is 'forbidden'? does education and advancements in technology really change man's nature which is both good and bad?

regardless of education, that still does not answer the question of reality and man's purpose here on earth. even if someone is highly educated, it doesnt mean they cant do wrong. the question is: how do you prevent someone from doing something wrong>

 

The answer presumes that justice is not a human abstraction but rather something more solid and concrete.

As social beings, we more than likely want to get along, more than likely feel terrible and changed from murder, and more than likely want to feel part of something greater than the whole. Is having a billion of us some part of a greater plan that even we don't see right in front of us. After awhile, such a huge number of scale diminishes the worth of our neighbors and causes some of the nastier social and ecological problems we're facing.

Things do not perfectly fall into place, nor is all life designed some way for a reason. Some people have disorders that require treatment and prescriptions to be a functioning member of society. For the cultish or the revolutionaries among us, there's no guarantee that the government/civilization that exists or will exist happens out of a planned will of a deity.

All of this is beyond anyone's understanding or comprehension. With or without religion, I think the greater majority still strives to do their best and keep society holding together.

 

Tell me. Before religions, or in places where religion didn't exist, what was the cause of all major conflicts. Did conflicts only arise when religions started?

Saying religion is the cause is naive, imo, and somewhat a Western idea. Mankind fights mainly for land, wealth and power. Basically, mankind doesn't share with others very well. You can say religion is a tool to give people faith in something. And rulers then exploit that for their own gain.

btw: If anyone believes that power exists in history in a small group of families, then those same people can't say religion is the biggest cause of conflict.

 

god was never a problem in chinese history before the communists got rid of it. it seems more of problem in the west between christians and muslims.

 

I love how every idiot here continuously uses a strawman that people are stating that religion is the only cause of violence.

 

Exactly, nobody said that. It's a major cause of it, but obviously not the only one.

 

i said in another thread, religion is used as a weapon and it's very nature makes it the most deadliest and dangerous weapon of all time.

 

Religion is not the cause of violence but it is a self-sanctioning of violence in many cases. Acts that would be morally repulsive to most individuals become acceptable by a society when ordained by it's higher power.

A power that is always 'mythical' and interpreted by men for their own purposes, and subject to their rational and irrational biases. Sanctioned violence is often used for the purposes of only certifying the validity of the mythical power in a circular logic.

(maybe the only logic that gives solace in an illogical existence?)

 

Saying that religion does not cause violence is like saying that beliefs have no effect on actions.

 

Religion is not the only cause of violence but in today's world, it is the primary cause of violence. Take away religion and you'd still have violence but at a much smaller scale.

 

Take away nations . . organized militaries. . . and they are smaller still



Rocket River

 

I'd say it comes second to what we call capitalism.

Both are ideologies and yes, of course, ideology is responsible for everything. That's why I don't understand the original post. People have beliefs and it's based on those beliefs that they take all actions.

Religion covers everything, not just a guy in the sky. It's morality, it's society, it's economy, it's everything. Of course everything bad that happens is likely rooted in an ideology. Who is counting all the good done on an individual basis in the name of religion? Are there more orphanages or terrorist cells? When one guy shoots people up, that's one guy. When one guy adopts 10 kids, when/where do we hear about that?

Religion was the dominant ideology last few centuries. That's over though, this horse has been beaten to death.

If we keep isolating religion to solve the problem, the same thing will happen again. We will be focusing on religion while other ideologies develop and expand in the world. It will go over our heads. Those are the ideologies we need to prioritize while keeping religion on a leash now that we know all we know about its accuracy and effectiveness. Today racists, bigots and xenophobes have learned again how to tip-toe around society with their hateful ideologies. Today's racist doesn't say the word ******, he just says he is anti-immigrant. Today's ideologues don't say they are chosen by god, they say they are chosen by money or fame. Every kid in the world wants to be in a Coke commercial - has any religion achieved that level of brainwashing? Hell no.

And if you think our new ideologies are not killing people en masse, you are not paying attention. Drones, army bases, bombs, wars, soldiers, terrorism, guerilla rebels, serial killers, suicide bombings, religious babbling. That's all about our new ideology, the worship of money. The fact that some market it as islamic or christian or jewish or secular or democratic or whatever the hell you want to call it, it's a murderous quest for capital. That's the ideology we SHOULD be talking about, that we SHOULD be defining more clearly, that we SHOULD worry about for our future.

A capitalist will throw on a beard, say allahu akbar and shoot up a bunch of innocent civilians if he can secure capital for his family after he's gone. Because his family lives in an unforgiving world dominated by capitalists. That means death if no money. Are we really worried about the allahu akbar part more than the overall ideology?

 

Typical.

A verbose Mathloom post to deflect from the fact that Islam was the motivation for terror once again.

 

Yes, people would hate gays without someone telling them to. I believe there are plenty of people who hate blacks and hispanics and whites and Asians simply because they are black or hispanic or white or Asian. I don't recall any place in the Bible where it says being black or hispanic or white or Asian is bad.

 

Mass executions of humanity have been happening since the dawn of time, many at the hands of governments and religion. No amount of governing or religion will ever eradicate hate, it's a human condition many are afflicted with. All we can do is teach our children not to hate and love those around us. If more people did that we would make some progress but where there is light, darkness will always follow, it's the way of the world.

 

A person comes before religion.

In a hypothetical room, with a hypothetical person, who is a blank slate in regards to a belief system. In the room, surrounded by representitives of every religion, he sits and listens to the beliefs of each and he chooses which message he believes most closely aligns with his own inherent beliefs. If that religion is violence, then the person's own inherent beliefs were violence.

Religion, is merely an accelerant here. The violence originates with the individual. Religion is just an excuse or justification for it.

 

All that shait is about establishing and maintaining economic dominance for your tribe (close genetics). You can't justify marginalizing and exploiting (killing) equal human beings, but you can promote the success of your tribe if you create the illusion of differentness and inferiority.

I suppose the demeaning of gay behaviour is a result of the desire to produce workers and warriors for the tribe. Many groups see a political advantage in unbridled reproduction.