One more time... affirmative action is used by college administrators to proportionalize and create diversity within the student body. Economic affirmative action absoutely, with a doubt will not help poor white people any more than the current system since it's not white students that are currently needed to proportionalize. This idea is nothing more than a myth. The bake sale is kind of amusing though, nice to see the Young Conservatives of Texas have such a grasp on the issue. And people have the nerve to say conservatives don't give a rats ass about minorities. The nerve...
Or how about half Japanese/ half Southern white /All-Lovemaster folks like myself? I think it was a clever idea on their part to illustrate the absurdity of racial-based preferences, but the repression of it by SMU shows that the only diversity on campus they want is racial, not opinion-wise. I just don't get how anyone can reasonably support racial preferences over ones that take into account the candidate's economic background. And get rid of those legacy admissions. Who cares about "diverse" campuses when there are "historically black" colleges, but as for the whites having a similar institution, they can't do that. It has to be diverse. If these folks had half a brain they'd realize that the races may live on campus and go to class together, but they are split among racial lines. That's just life and all the mixers won't change that.
*EDIT* Aw, screw it. Some people can't get it through their head that black people aren't the only group on the planet that has problems. And my attempts to argue for merit and economic-based preferences get lost.....
Clutch disabled the search feature a LOOOOOOOONG time ago due to the use of bandwidth space that it takes.
You know, bama, I really think you are a smart guy, but sometimes you just say the most ignorant s$$t and its so upsetting. Let's not forget the reason Historically Black Colleges exist, because blacks weren't allowed to go to white schools in the south, and secondly, no one is preventing whites from going to Historically Black Schools if they want to. I really wish you guys would avoid bringing up these colleges in this debate, as the whole point is irrelevant.
The title of this thread is confusing - I thought Nabisco was holding races at SMU to determine how much to charge for Oreos.
Colleges aren't going to turn away wealthy white students in favor of poor white students. We're not talking about economic diversification here. Do you think the University of Michigan with their new economic affirmative action is all of a sudden going to start targetting poor white students instead of trying to meet the goals they had under the old affirmative action program? Even here in Texas where there is no affirmative action, the University of Texas has outreach programs to recruit minorities. They're not out there recruiting poor white people. You're being naive.
I know why they were formed. But why is that they are under no pressure to become more "diverse" when mostly white colleges are? That's not to say that I support state schools refusing candidates on race because that is ridiculous. Does diversity make for a better education? MLK went to a historically black college sans diversity and I think he turned out fine. Keep the affirmative action to economics rather than race and it will better for all of us in the long run. And did I forget to mention get rid of those damned legacy admissions!
Finish him! How much would a cookie cost a black woman? Also, were the cookies any good? They could make this even more offensive by giving cookies of varying quality to different ethnic groups. Then, while whining about college admissions, they could also comment on K-12 public education, where children of color are much less likely to be taught by certified and/or credentialed teachers.
Pipe down, Sizzle Chest. Samuel's logic is beyond flawed. The reasons laws are created are not always the reasons why laws are still in existence. Times change, and benefits and protections which are derived from the laws change with them. Samuel's feeble attempt at correcting me was truly laughable and naive.
You're still missing the point Bama, I don't see a bunch of white kids trying to get into these colleges. TSU has started an agrressive advertising campaign here in Houston, but if kids don't want to go there, they just don't. There has to be a demand, and blacks have always wanted to go to the larger state schools, even when there was segregation. Kids want to go to the larger state schools and more prestigous private schools. Its just a ridiculous point.
Isn't that the point of a lot of posters here? Poor white students get ignored, just because they're white. Say there were 4 people applying to the same college, each with equal merit. Rich White, Rich Black, Poor Black, Poor White. Under affirmative action, the first two are in, the Poor Black gets a shot and the Poor White is bagging groceries. Under what I think would be best (applications w/ no names, just #'s), the first two would be in and the last two get an equal shot. What isn't fair about that?
T_J should try reading my posts and not just complementing my sexy chest. Or maybe he got stuck on bad flashbacks to mortal kombat humiliations. Anyway, I will reiterate my brilliant idea that different qualities of cookies should be handed out to different ethnic groups. So, the booth that I open on campus tomorrow will sell cookies at a uniform price, but what customers receive will vary. I will reserve all the Nutter Butter Peanut Butter cookies for the mostly-pasty crowd, natch.
The problem with your analogy is the ratios (there are huge differences in wealth between the two so giving a rich x and a rich y equal weight is a big time flaw) and the reason the system is in place. AA and the like aren't in place to diversify the economic statuses of the students, it's to diversify culture, ethnicity, and race. If it were really about diversifying economic status then there'd be this huge segment of rich people who couldn't get into a school, like that's going to happen. The poor black student gets a shot because there are so few blacks, poor or otherwise, in the school to begin with which is the whole point of the program in the first place.
Quick Points. While I do think AA is necessary, I'm not sure what the best way to implement it is. To those against it and to those that want just "merit" based admission, I just offer this argument. Why is it that we can (almost) all agree that race has played a role in all these people's lives before applying for college, but when the time comes to seek admission, you want to not consider it. It just seems too arbitrary, similar to prohibitting a team from looking at a players height when drafting him for the NBA and only looking at pts, rebs, etc... This doesn't seem to make that much sense when you know that the individual's height has played a significant/important part in the stats that they did achieve up to that point and it will continue to have a significant part in their integration of the team. And just as another example ... think about a previously mentioned example where you have a rich white kid, rich black kid, poor white kid and poor black kid. If these students are all on the same "level" when looking at merit, could it possibly be more impressive for the black person to achieve the same level of merit, in spite of all the racial discrimination he or she had to deal with? I'm not saying that it should be a deciding factor, but A factor. I think a problem with much of the argument is that the opponents look only at race and point to that as the DECIDING factor rather than A factor. Just some stuff to consider, ponder, debate ...
One very simple nethod to determine the fairness of a law that defines special groups is to switch the groups around and see if you would still be in favor of the law. Would you think it was okay if race was A factor and that being white gave you extra points for admission, such that all other things being equal the white candidate was admitted? That is why it is a bad law. Under the law, we should all be considered the same.
