Steel Tariffs Appear to Backfire President Bush imposed heavy tariffs on imported steel last year in a decision driven by his political advisers, but now key administration officials have concluded that the order has turned into a debacle. – By Mike Allen and Jonathan Weisman http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31768-2003Sep18.html I thought handling the economy was a strong point for Dubya?!
You lower tariffs, someone loses their job. You raise tariffs, someone loses their job. Long-term, however, tariffs help keep jobs here. I have no problem with Bush's move.
Now this thread is truly reflective of the Bush haters on the board. They will look anywhere to discredit our President. In this case, they have found a very liberal, pro-union move which the President made, which democrats loved and promoted. So that is the President's fault too? Hilarious. This is exposure at its finest.
Long term I think trying to protect steel jobs is a hopeless exercise. Better to move on and try and retrain that workforce.
Yeah, you keep wasteful, inefficient jobs hear that keep our economy sluggish. Hell, why don't they stop importing steel from other states in the US, why stop at other countries?
What's hillarious is the first person and only person to respond to this thread was Greenvegan, and he supported the move. At least he's a lunatic left wing liberal who can admit when Bush has done something he agrees with. The only person who has been exposed as you, you apparently didn't read any response, you just went into Bush hater, blah, blah, blah, mode.
Can some of the more knowledeable enlighten me? As I understand it, the modern steel industry is not that labor intensive. Therefore, cheap labor has less of an impact. It is also my further understanding that many foreign producers of steel get subsidies from their respective govenments. While I tend to be a free market sort of person, it's a little hard to compete in this environment. However, if there is a stated goal of creating more jobs and stimulating our economy, wouldn't incentives for modernization be a much better option than tariffs? IIRC, the US automakers never got off their butts until the Japanese imports forced them into it. The Japanese automakers agreed to a few years of restricted quantities to allow the Big 3 to catch up and overall it seems to have worked. I doubt any of the steel importers are going to agree to limitations but I somehow feel tax credits for modernization are better than tariffs. The tariffs may lessen the impact of competition in the short-term but it still gives the corporate exec's the option of taking the profits and not upgrading. And we all know what standards the corp exec's have performed to lately.
Duhh, there's free-traders in the democratic party, (GATT, NAFTA anybody?) just like there's protectionist/isolationists int he republican party. Exposure? Indeed, expositive of a lack of comprehension.
Exactly. You do what they want you to do and they pile on you for doing what they wanted you to do! Jeez. I've come to the conclusion that the D & D forum should just be renamed the "GWB Sucks" forum. Everyday it is always something about he's a liar, stupid, inarticulate, murderer, environmental plunderer etc. etc. etc. I think it's gotten a bit out of hand. OK, you're not going to vote for the guy. I get it.
Bigtexx and bama, Calm down, people. The lefty posters on this board (like Vegan) said they didn't find anything wrong with what Bush did. Many of the liberals here I think come across as mindless Bush bashers at times, but in this thread it looks like the opposite is true (you two didn't read their posts). Give them credit for choosing their beliefs over their dislike for Bush.
Oh come on, relax. You weren't here when Clinton was the prez. Much of the same "razzing" went on also! Bottom line is, no matter who's the prez (Democrat or Republican), you will be the favorite target of the opposite side. As long as it does not get vulger, explicit, down right nasty, etc. what does it hurt?
People also need to consider that cheap imports are good for us. They always assume it is bad just because American companies may not be able to make their products as cheap. But the fact is, consumers are benefitting bigtime.
It would be interesting to find out if tax credits are just as big a problem in relation to steel as tariffs are re: WTO et al. Anyone know about that? Part of the auto equation has changed due primarily to labor. When the Japanese first started gobbling up market share they paid their workers less than Detroit, and their workers spent less. One reason we're seeing the continued problem with the Japanese economy is that they have not come to grips with the increase in wages/spending even as their labor becomes too expensive vs cheaper alternatives. Culturally the haven't been able to downsize and streamline like Detroit was able to do. The same thing has happened in the steel market, where Japan and others made steel cheaper than we could, and started taking up market share. I think US steel industry has seen a lot of consolidation and modernization but still cannot compete equally. Hence I believe it is time to let the industry go the way of the family farm and horse buggy businesses.
May I respectfully ask why? 95% of the world has discarded the "horse and buggy" bur steel is everywhere - cars, girders, battleships, the space station... Again, my understanding is that cheap labor is not the cost driver for the steel industry and we can't compete because of the subsidies by foreign governments to their steel producers. To me, there is something intuitively wrong that we dominated the world in steel production with about 85% of the world's steel tonnage just 25 years ago and now we are down to 25%. Do you not think that there is some point where this low %age jeopardizes our status in the world? Just intuitively it seems like the wrong way to go...we can't finish that building because the supply has been disrupted by a civil conflict in some 2nd or 3rd world nation...maybe it's just me but it doesn't feel right.
Why does US Steel still exist? This is an industry that is on its last leg. It's another monument to American inefficiency. Lets state the obvious, American steel is lower quality and costs more to produce. No offense, but the writing is on the wall.
In keeping with my disgust for corporate welfare including farm subsidies, I continue to oppose tariffs that eventually raise prices for the American consumer. I agree that we should have steel making CAPACITY, but if we cannot produce steel as cheaply as we can import it, why should we prop up a failing industry? I use the same logic here as in the case of the RIAA. There is an industry whose business model has failed and must be revamped.
I fail to see the connection. The largest producer of steel in the world is communist China. Please enlighten me as to why the US steel producers have an inferior business model to a communist system. I'm no expert but I suspect the issue is much deeper than a business model.
I think tarriffs short term is the way to go, only if their is understanding from current steel manufacturing to get their crap together. Allegedly we have steel companies in the US that ARE competitive with foreign steel, but the major big boys are the ones that have failed to upgrade their plants and machineries, basically becoming stagnant for the past few decades. We can't reward this type of behaviour. Upgrade and compete, or let these old gray hairs fall on their butts.
What has a greater impact: producing American steel by American workers for American consumers, or sending money into a Communist regime for a product we can make at home?
What communist regimes? Last time I checked South Korea and Japan (top steel producing countries) weren't controlled by communist regimes.
