Except for the fact that Curry does struggle when more physical contact is allowed... which reached its peak in the finals last year. Sure, he may adjust when facing that contact over a whole season.... or he may just wear down faster... its an unknown that warrants discussion, rather than your hyperbole speak and anointing of him as the greatest ever regardless of era.
why do people not want to accept that schemes on both offense and defense are much more complicated today? wouldn't it be strange if they weren't, since they build off of past schemes? watch football. offenses and defense are ridiculously more complex than they used to be. it seems easier to notice for whatever reason in football. maybe it'sall the well-known terminology or maybe just the fact that they all line up for a few seconds before each play to let you look at it all. but it's there. as some people have already posted from articles, there are coaches who straight up say that things are more complex. and with the zone defense, of course they would be. you're not going to get less complex by having more options. and offenses have to respond. handchecking was a nice help for defenses, but it wasn't like you could just stiff-arm someone from the 3 point line to the hoop. they called even more fouls back then than now. but we're supposed to believe you could do anything you wanted without getting a foul called? how does that explain the higher foul rates? people were less athletic. that seems like a fairly undeniable fact based on essentially all of the sports we've watched for the past 100 years. people continues to break records and get bigger, faster, and stronger. that's not up for debate. if the counter is "then why do players play less minutes" that's because there is simply much more movement now. watch hardwood classics. there is nothing approaching today's movement in the 80's and really even the 90's doesn't involve movement that similar to today. illegal defense made it different. isolation because of illegal defense made it different. effort made it different - the lack of intensity even in playoff games in the 80s seems somewhat shocking unless it is just that the players were slower on the whole and thus it just looks like lack of effort. nutrition and healthcare and such can prolong careers but the per minute toll is still high enough to outpace such things as to require a reduction in minutes, or at least a reduction in minutes if you hope to keep up in the playoffs with the teams who are resting their players. in general, i think any large group of people would produce athletes that would perform very similarly if they grew up in the same eras. i don't think people today are superhumans who learned skills no one in the past could have. and people back then weren't somehow genetically tougher such that they could endure anything compared to players today. switch the roles and the results are probably the same. there is one big difference though. the money in sports and popularity of sports has certainly outpaced any expansion the number of teams in sports. the talent pool is simply much larger and thus has almost certainly produced a better group of athletes (talent, athleticism, etc) than from previous eras. this current era grew up as money was exploding in sports and almost certainly more people have tried to become professional athletes which has certainly increased the quality of the group that makes each professional league. previous generations would have produced the same quality had they grown up now but, even in a relative sense, i certainly think almost every professional sport has seen a marked increase in quality.
Much like in basketball, football has also made it harder for defenders to initiate/make contact with receivers.... and their ability to hit the QB has been significantly impacted. This was all done to increase scoring and make the game more entertaining for viewers. I'm sure you won't see much difference in overall football defensive numbers now. (but you do see a vast increase in passing, much like you do see a vast increase in the perimeter game/shooting in the NBA). All these changes were designed because of how much impediment the bigger/stronger/faster players were affecting the game and making it less entreating for the casual viewer. Yes, athletes evolve (albeit not at the rate that the poster suggested above), and that does require the game to evolve and rules to change as well (albeit, most rule changes do benefit the offense, because offense sells... offense is fun.... offense gets viewers... high scoring close game are considered "amazing", while low-scoring close games with excellent defense are considered "boring".) The next step that they'll have to consider is making the fields (or courts) of play bigger.... always thought it was strange that we all see the players evolve/grow, but they were still always being fit into the constraints/dimensions of fields/courts designed for players 50-100 years ago. Agree with the rest... good post... even better that there were no large unrelated pictures.
If rules allowed, a coach wouldn't instruct his players to get physical with a player who's "magnitudes better" than anyone who lived? A player who has previously struggled with physicality? Seems you don't even believe your own words because you have had to hyperbolized handchecking this entire conversation. You're old enough to remember exactly what a handcheck was, yet you continue to pretend it's some form of gang-tackling. 1) you haven't showed a link to defend your invented defensive rating stat. 2) you have yet to explain your "handchecking equals reaching" theory You're certainly brewing a bunch of lame points in that tea pot.
Lets do a little test, now shall we? Soccer: It got much faster, athletes are more skilled (higher handling speed)\ Marathon: Dang, people got faster. High jump: Hey people jump higher.... Sprint: HUH? Usain Bolt is faster than Lewis.... Speedskating: Every year new records. Cycling: Het Wiggins just set a world record last year Nick, I await with fuklkl confidence your hard evidence B-ball players are the outlier where they did not get better physically. Besides, as I pointed out a few times, Epo, HGH and Aicar are gamechangers. And no, please do not erect a strawman how I am saying Jordan in not the GOAT. It's a ridiculous position. Jordan is simply the best player ever. But if he would be playing now he would have to adapt. Just as Lebron would have to adapt if he was playing in the Jordan era. B-Ball changed. To drive that one home: The days of ISO-success are gone. Unless you are serious that Jordan could ISO any team to success nowadays I'd say that's enough reason to accept that even a Jordan, Hakeem or Wilt would have to adapt to the game of the era.
March 1, 2016 Dear NBA coaches: I have been watching lots of TV and I can tell you are defending Steph Curry all wrong, just try to GET PHYSICAL with him - trust me I know it will work, he will struggle. - Houstunna, Indianopolis, IN.
It went from jordan he passed it to kobe kobe passed it to lebron and he mishandled his time and it got cut short. To now lebron passing to torch to curry. But the thing is curry will have multiple rings (5+) like jordan and kobe
Dear Clutchfans, I know exactly what a handcheck is, but for argument's sake, I'll hyperbolized it every opportunity. I also solemnly swear to invent stats to support my lies. Sincerely, Sammy - Trollville, USA I'm done until you post some accurate basketball info.
Jeff Hornacek dropped 20ppg in the early 90s on amazing percentages. No disrespect to him, but Curry is a far better shooter and shot creator than Hornacek ever was. Shooters are just incredibly hard to guard in any era, regardless of defensive rules. Even prime Artest, a very physical defender, struggled to guard guys like Rip Hamilton Kevin Martin because they could just run off a bunch of screens and eventually get a shot off. You can't stop a guy from coming off a screen by hand checking him the entire time, that was illegal even back then. People are really the understating the difficulty of shots that Curry is hitting. He would easily adjust to hand checking. His game isn't primarily about penetration off the dribble, that's just a by product of being able to get off an accurate shot in less than half a second.
Just making my view regarding handchecking clear.... I think all current players who thrive would thrive in any Era... but until handchecking is reinstated, I'll always think current players' offensive numbers are inflated. It's silly to think checking would reduce any great player to scrub-status or average, but it's also silly to think more physicality wouldn't impede anyone at least somewhat, especially players who aren't physical. Illegal and advanced defense... I've already seen 40-year-old Jordan average 20/6/4, coming off injury, after a 4 year retirement, AFTER illegal defenses were abolished and BEFORE defensive 3-seconds was birthed There's no doubt current perimeter players would struggle offensively more in the 90's vs 90's guys this Era.
I suppose this is your so-called evidence that humans have had the ability to evolve for greater strength/stamina over the last decade+.... congratulations for teaching the class all about recency bias and purposely using niche sports examples, along with best of the best examples, that really don't support your fallacy-ridden claim. Here's some more pertinent examples that everybody may relate to: NFL: There is no WR in football that is currently faster or more skilled than Randy Moss and Jerry Rice were. MLB: There is no pitcher that possesses either the quality of fastball/curveball or the longevity/stamina that Nolan Ryan had. NBA: There is no big man today with the skills/athleticism/speed of Hakeem... and since he didn't hit his prime/peak years till age 30, might as well throw in stamina as well. You see what happens when you take individual/isolated occurrences of recent basis and generalize that this advancement applies to everybody? You end up looking pretty foolish. And which NBA players do you accuse of taking this? I know your niche sports are riddled with the stuff... which is why nobody really cares about them in this country. An entire conversation you're having with yourself... never once mentioned Jordan/Lebron or any strawman erections (does that get you off? ew...) Please... do you honestly think all those players simply were successful due to isolation? On the flip-side, do you honestly think NBA players don't get plenty of one-on-one opportunities today? D-Wade made a career off of it in the 2006 NBA finals. Harden's step-daddy is one of the greatest isolation moves of the modern era. If there was still big-men that had the ability to post-up well today, they'd still be able to dominate their position and help mitigate the small-ball revolution... Yao certainly found ways to dominate in the post-illegal defense era. Of course there would be an adaptation factor to this era.... and once the perimeter guys realized how defense has basically been neutered of all physical/man-up defense, there would be some orgasmic thrusting and fireworks going off. Meanwhile, Steph Curry gets physical'd up by Dellevedova in a way that he doesn't experience in the regular season, and he puts up a 5-23 performance. Adjustments everywhere!
OH NOES, mic drop, Houstunna is gone, how will we ever live without him? Cue up the Boyz II Men PRAYERS ANSWERED, he was done...for 4 hours and 39 minutes. Welcome back old pal.
Congrats, Sammy... you finally made a good point!! I did say I "was done" with this conversation and still responded again. I really meant, I "was done" WITH YOU regarding this conversation. Very receptive of you to notice my error!!! Now, explain your statement, "handchecking equals reaching", and I promise we can cuddle, babycakes #samantha
Niche sports? Is it that Salty you call soccer a niche sport? Cycling? Are you that upset that I actually show with data that indeed athletes have improved?? Ah yes, some points where you lack any hard data. Great job for showing the difference my dear man. Let me see... some subbjective feelings versus cild hard data that shows athletes improved. Like trying to refute cold hard data by calling massive sports Niche and being unable to come up with something better than an subjective gut feeling about "skills"? It's really salty huh? Imagine athletes trying to max out their potential for millions of dollars. Say it ain't so! I think you need to reread your posts. Ohhhh snap. Then again, I watched Jordan and he was indeed the best ever. That's the good luck of actually being a bit older, you see a lot of it and see the differences. You add in the word "simply", but let's ignore that. Yes, the game was highly iso reliant. It's still there now, but the results are quite telling. Iso isn't as succesfull anymore. Change happens. The game is different. And yes, that changes it all. Again, you hopscotch about the fact (something nobody denies) the game changed and got faster. The slower more bulky player would have to shed weight for speed. They would be totally different players. But yeah man, Orgasmic thrusting and Curry physicalled... Need abox of kleenex? After this quite graphic show of how intense this is for you and the through clobberimg on facts I;'m done. Jordan forever Nick.
All I'm saying is that if you think 1990s coaches waved magic hand check wands to stop players in a full sprint down the court (when in the penalty...at the buzzer...in a tie game) ... you're dead wrong, just like you have been about everything else. Like the other facts that sent yout running into bbs exile for....FOUR WHOLE HOURS last night...this is easily verifiable. Why don't you dig up a video clip of some 90s defensive stalwart (which, in those days meant "only" giving up 108 ppg, lol.....) successfully thwarting a half court full run break/desperation heave with the Maginot Line handcheck you are referring to. I'm sure Richie Abdubato has a library of VHS tapes you can refer. Seriously one clip. I'm not talking about Derek harper harassing a Deer in the headlights Kenny Smith as he tries to get into Rudy's complex 2 play system in the half court midway through the third, I mean somehow grabbing a guy at full run in transition and mysteriously slowing him down without getting a whistle. Love, Samantha.
Thank goodness... the board can now be free of your non-existent "cold-hard data" and "facts" that somehow proved humans have evolved at an exponential rate sine the millennium... along with the accusation that millions are spent on doping/performance enhancing drugs by NBA players. At least you know when to bow-out, before you embarrass yourself anymore... and yes, in this country soccer is not a mainstream (hence, niche) sport... still. Sorry that offends you, but I'm glad you're the advocate for cycling and speed skating.
There's not a Top 50 Greatest NBA player who was as weak as Curry. Handchecking definitely would have limited him.
Hand checking was overrated and rarely effective on the greats. Hand checking had an effect on guys like Kenny Smith and Robert Pack, not Jordan, Isiah or Stockton. Watch any full game of these guys and you might see a couple attempts at a hand check outside of the post.
"...if guys could bang [Curry] and knock him to the ground as that was once the case in the league, I don’t think that would be a better brand of basketball. ..."
