The blind bio poll is hardly indicative of how voters will cast their vote. Name recognition is very important, as is political party affiliation. Those results don't tell me much, Major. Name recognition is essential in (1) primaries and in (2) smaller races. If Clark is able to get the nomination though, name recognition completely disappears as an issue in a Presidential campaign. Political Party affiliation is important, to an extent. However, as name recognition increases, party affiliation gets less important because voters then start voting for candidates instead of parties. Clark's toughest fight is going to be the early one -- getting an organization in place and building name recognition for the first couple of primaries. If he can pull that off, he has, by far, the best chance of beating Bush.
Clark has been intending to run all along. He probably has wanted to consult with others and get his game plan honed so that when people ask him on the campaign trail, "What about subsidies for this-and-that-most-arcane-makes-you-scratch-your-head-subject," he'll have an answer. Bush was always content with, "Uh, don't misunderestimate the American people." Thinking of another Rhodes scholar from Arkansas who entered the race late, twelve years ago, and went on to win the Presidency....but this one with the military credentials to tell Bush, "Dressing like Tom Cruise from Top Gun and landing on a carrier just outside San Diego doesn't make you fit to be commander in chief".... Can't wait.
Actually, I'd be interested to see a Clark-Dean ticket. One who's a courageous soldier & commander and one who courageously spoke out against Bush and the war when everyone else cowered.....
I think the most telling thing about Clark entering the race <i>now</i> (after the other Democratic candidates have been at it for a little while) is that he feels he's got a shot. In orther words, there are NO STRONG Democratic candicates right now no matter how much you might like Dean or Liberman or whoever. If there was a clear and strong front runner, I don't think Clark would enter the race. He has been sitting back, observing the competition and now that he's decided that they aren't competition he's giving it a go. Also, with regard to an earlier post about Bush/Cheny unleashing all sorts of negative things.... don't you think that's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black? You don't think the Democrats haven't been blasting Bush for the last few months over things they agreed to? (War in Iraq, tax cuts, etc...) They had the same intelligence and they had their own tax cut plan. It's politics. If you start thinking "your guy" is "good" then you are a fool. They are all out for their own good and their party's good - not YOUR welfare. They're all evil bastards!
Wesley Clark was a pathetic general and he will make a pathetic candidate as well. His record is anything but sterling. I could go on and on (as a veteran of our stupid foray into the former Yugoslavia), but he was indecisive and had no clue of what to do. He's just another loser trying to buck for a running mate berth, perhaps with the Hildabeast if she makes the plunge.
oh yeah, Our involvment was such a faliure in the Balkins ?? r you sure you were in the US military and not the Serb? you want to compare past achievements? General Clark is a 1966 graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York, where he graduated first in his class. He holds a master's degree in philosophy, politics and economics from Oxford University where he studied as a Rhodes Scholar (August 1966-August 1968). He is a graduate of the National War College, Command and General Staff College, Armor Officer Advanced and Basic Courses, and Ranger and Airborne schools George W. Bush - uh, ? Drunk Driving? Cocaine? AWOL for duty for Texas Air National Guard? being handed a oil business job? being handed a MLB team?
Actually, I'd be interested to see a Clark-Dean ticket. One who's a courageous soldier & commander and one who courageously spoke out against Bush and the war when everyone else cowered..... I could go for that; or reverse the ticket. I thought the other ticket humorous from the point of view of the GOP trying to run from the patriotic he- man point of view.
Who will you be voting for ? What are the qualifications of that candidate? Also, what is his/her military experience ?
Now don't you be dissin on the cheerleader-in-chief. God wants him to be President. Just ask him. And all the other CEO's out there. Was it in this or another thread? I'll be seeing Clark on Friday when he speaks on campus at the University of Iowa. Can't wait.
Whoop de damn.....I was a former Marine 1986-1996, made the rank of staff sergeant (E-6) in eight years (which is great in the advancement-slow Corps) and my crowning achievement was my participation in the rescue of Scott O'Grady in 1995. I know what you think about the war there, but, in the words of Desi Arnaz, lemmesplain something to you. Over there, we lost several aircraft and hit absolutely nothing in the way of Serbian armor and artillery pieces despite expending more "smart" weapons than we expended in the Persian Gulf War. Under his command, he allowed the Serbians to take UN peacekeepers hostage several times without so much as a reply or any retaliation. But when we did retaliate tentatively, the ROE's (rules of engagement) were so ******* restrictive that it made it almost useless to even fight the Serbs. I understand that a lot of that was due to the anti-military, casualty-sensitive, tail-between-the-legs, cowering wussy of a President we had at that time, but still, as the general in charge, you have to give the NCA a no-****ter and let them know that if they want the mission accomplished, they need to quit interfering or else just get our troops out of harm's way. He, of course, being ever the politician, did not even say anything except "yes sir." And as for the Army, ranger and airborne courses are nothing compared to what we went through in the USMC. I got my jump wings and our training was much more extensive than anything the Army ever thought of going through. So I don't really see his resume as being that great. What you forgot to mention as you senselessly bashed our C in C was: 1. the cocaine story was never confirmed by any reputable source 2. He did graduate from Harvard with a MBA, the first president to ever do so and no mean feat. So face it, that loser you hate so much will be your C in C for the next four years as well. Get used it to it.
Agreed! It would be interesting to see how Dubya & "The CEO's CEO" would counter the military experience of a Clark-Kerry ticket.......Let's hope Clark jumps in the race, I'm betting he does!
bamaslammer, Does this sound right? <hr color=blue> <i>A Vain, Pompous, Brown-noser Meet the Real Gen. Clark Anyone seeking to understand the bloody fiasco of the Serbian war need hardly look further than the person of the beribboned Supreme Allied Commander, General Wesley K. Clark. Politicians and journalists are generally according him a respectful hearing as he discourses on the "schedule" for the destruction of Serbia, tellingly embracing phrases favored by military bureaucrats such as "systematic" and "methodical". The reaction from former army subordinates is very different. "The poster child for everything that is wrong with the GO (general officer) corps," exclaims one colonel, who has had occasion to observe Clark in action, citing, among other examples, his command of the 1st Cavalry Division at Fort Hood from 1992 to 1994. While Clark's official Pentagon biography proclaims his triumph in "transitioning the Division into a rapidly deployable force" this officer describes the "1st Horse Division" as "easily the worst division I have ever seen in 25 years of doing this stuff." Such strong reactions are common. A major in the 3rd Brigade of the 4th Infantry Division at Fort Carson, Colorado when Clark was in command there in the early 1980s described him as a man who "regards each and every one of his subordinates as a potential threat to his career". While he regards his junior officers with watchful suspicion, he customarily accords the lower ranks little more than arrogant contempt. A veteran of Clark's tenure at Fort Hood recalls the general's "massive tantrum because the privates and sergeants and wives in the crowded (canteen) checkout lines didn't jump out of the way fast enough to let him through". Clark's demeanor to those above is, of course, very different, a mode of behavior that has earned him rich dividends over the years. Thus, early in 1994, he was a candidate for promotion from two to three star general. Only one hurdle remained - a war game exercise known as the Battle Command Training Program in which Clark would have to maneuver his division against an opposing force. The commander of the opposing force, or "OPFOR" was known for the military skill with which he routinely demolished opponents. But Clark's patrons on high were determined that no such humiliation should be visited on their favorite. Prior to the exercise therefore, strict orders came down that the battle should go Clark's way. Accordingly, the OPFOR was reduced in strength by half, thus enabling Clark, despite deploying tactics of signal ineptitude, to triumph. His third star came down a few weeks later. Battle exercises and war games are of course meant to test the fighting skills of commanders and troops. The army's most important venue for such training is the National Training Center at Fort Irwin, California, where Clark commanded from October 1989 to October 1991 and where his men derisively nicknamed him "Section Leader Six" for his obsessive micro-management. At the NTC, army units face a resident OPFOR that has, through constant battle practice coupled with innovative tactics and close knowledge of the terrain, become adept at routing the visiting "Blue Force" opponents. For Clark, this naturally posed a problem. Not only were his men using unconventional tactics, they were also humiliating Blue Force generals who might nurture resentment against the NTC commander and thus discommode his career at some future date. To the disgust of the junior OPFOR officers Clark therefore frequently fought to lose, sending his men on suicidal attacks in order that the Blue Forces should go home happy and owing debts of gratitude to their obliging foe. All observers agree that Clark has always displayed an obsessive concern with the perquisites and appurtenances of rank. Ever since he acceded to the Nato command post, the entourage with which he travels has accordingly grown to gargantuan proportions to the point where even civilians are beginning to comment. A Senate aide recalls his appearances to testify, prior to which aides scurry about the room adjusting lights, polishing his chair, testing the microphone etc prior to the precisely timed and choreographed moment when the Supreme Allied Commander Europe makes his entrance. "We are state of the art pomposity and arrogance up here," remarks the aide. "So when a witness displays those traits so egregiously that even the senators notice, you know we're in trouble." His NATO subordinates call him, not with affection, "the Supreme Being". "Clark is smart," concludes one who has monitored his career. "But his whole life has been spent manipulating appearances (e.g. the doctored OPFOR exercise) in the interests of his career. Now he is faced with a reality he can't control." This observer concludes that, confronted with the wily Slobodan and other unavoidable variables of war, Clark will soon come unglued. "Watch the carpets at NATO HQ for teeth marks." </i> <hr color=blue>
<a HREF="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/671495.stm">Confrontation over Pristina airport</a> <i> Thursday, 9 March, 2000, 14:14 GMT Confrontation over Pristina airport Nato was taken aback by the Russians' arrival Details of Russia's surprise occupation of Pristina airport at the end of the Kosovo war are revealed in a new BBC documentary on the conflict. For the first time, the key players in the tense confrontation between Nato and Russian troops talk about the stand-off which jeopardised the entire peacekeeping mission. The Russians, who played a crucial role in persuading Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic to end the war, had expected to police their own sector of Kosovo, independent of Nato. When they did not get it, they felt double-crossed. As Nato's K-For peacekeepers prepared to enter the province on 12 June, they discovered the Russians had got there first. A contingent of 200 troops, stationed in Bosnia, was already rolling towards Pristina airport. 'Third World War' General Wesley Clark, Nato's supreme commander, immediately ordered 500 British and French paratroopers to be put on standby to occupy the airport. ''I called the [Nato] Secretary General [Javier Solana] and told him what the circumstances were,'' General Clark tells the BBC programme Moral Combat: Nato at War. ''He talked about what the risks were and what might happen if the Russian's got there first, and he said: 'Of course you have to get to the airport'. General Jackson: Backed by UK Government ''I said: 'Do you consider I have the authority to do so?' He said: 'Of course you do, you have transfer of authority'.'' But General Clark's plan was blocked by General Sir Mike Jackson, K-For's British commander. <b> "I'm not going to start the Third World War for you," he reportedly told General Clark during one heated exchange. General Jackson tells the BBC: ''We were [looking at] a possibility....of confrontation with the Russian contingent which seemed to me probably not the right way to start off a relationship with Russians who were going to become part of my command.'' </b> Russian plans The Russian advance party took the airport unopposed. The world watched nervously. A senior Russian officer, General Leonid Ivashev, tells the BBC how the Russians had plans to fly in thousands of troops. ''Let's just say that we had several airbases ready. We had battalions of paratroopers ready to leave within two hours,'' he said. Amid fears that Russian aircraft were heading for Pristina, General Clark planned to order British tanks and armoured cars to block the runways to prevent any transport planes from landing. General Clark said he believed it was ''an appropriate course of action''. But the plan was again vetoed by Britain. Partition fears Instead, he asked neighbouring countries, including Hungary and Romania not to allow Russian aircraft to overfly their territory. Russians are not under direct Nato command During the stand-off, Moscow insisted its troops would be answerable only to its own commanders. Nato refused to accept this, predicting it would lead to the partition of Kosovo into an ethnic Albanian south and a Serbian north. A deal on the deployment of Russian peacekeepers was reached in early July. The Russians now operate as part of K-For in sectors controlled by Nato states, but are not directly under Nato's command. </i>
Mango.....buddy, you hit it right on the head about General Clark. I've always said that I'm a straight-shooter, no b.s. kind of guy. When he came out to our ship, the bull**** flag went up the flag pole like a scalded cat. He had no clue what our mission was nor did he successfully lobby for the ROEs and assets to do it properly. Our morale sucked because all we did was float around in the Med/Adriatic for months on end without anything to do until Scott O'Grady's F-16 was shot down. In a lot of ways, from the airedales I talked to, it was like a Vietnam type scenario where targets were picked by the NATO command, a fractured commitee with disparate interests who had no clue what was going on at the front. And you think Clark has a great military record? I don't think so. The only generals who win election to office are winning ones and if you do your research, the Balkans was in no way a victory: we will be there forever because those people will start killing each other as soon as we leave. We spent all that money on expensive PGMs and lost several aircraft over nothing. I always said let the bastards kill each other in that civil war and we will make friends with the survivors, because it's none of my damned business, especially if my wife and child get a flag drapped coffin and a check over some half-hearted intervention in some country that doesn't mean a damned thing to anybody . Imagine what would have happened to our country if some faraway power intervened in a "peacekeeping" operation in our Civil War. The North and the South would still be at loggerheads. And to those who think the Balkans campaign was successful: Read the entire article here:http://www.guardian.co.uk/Kosovo/Story/0,2763,207801,00.html
Just wanted to say that all of this info is intriguing.. I am a democrat and I have no clue who I am going to vote for in the primary. Btw, a big THANK YOU to bamaslammer for your service in the military
A lot of people seem to have negative things to say about Clark's service in Kosovo. Wasn't that the conflict where we actually captured the leader we were going after, and didn't have any troops loose their lives?
We never did capture Milosovic, his own people took care of that. He will go on trial for war crimes, but he bested us at every turn. The only reason we had no casualties was the NATO insistence that we bomb from 20,000 feet where the AAA couldn't touch our aircraft. As a result, we wasted tons of ordnance and killed few if any of the Serb tanks, artillery pieces, SAM batteries or fighter planes.
Looks like he's pretty much in: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&ncid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20030916/ap_on_el_pr/clark Ex-Gen. Wesley Clark to Seek White House By RON FOURNIER, AP Political Writer LITTLE ROCK, Ark. - Wesley Clark, the retired general with a four-star military resume but no political experience, decided Tuesday to become the 10th Democratic presidential candidate, officials close to him said. Mark Fabiani, a spokesman for Clark, did not reveal the decision, but sources close to the former Army general said he told his fledgling campaign team that he's in the race. The announcement will be made at 1 p.m. EDT Wednesday in Little Rock, sources said. Clark's decision came as Democratic strategists from around the country gathered at his small, low-slung brick headquarters on the banks of the Arkansas river to discuss strategy for mounting a late-starting presidential campaign. Fabiani, who served as spokesman for former Vice President Al Gore (news - web sites)'s 2000 campaign, is part of a cadre of former Gore and Bill Clinton (news - web sites) advisers, who are now rallying behind Clark. In addition to Fabiani, among those attending the meeting were Ron Klain, a strategist in Al Gore's 2000 campaign; Washington lawyer Bill Oldaker; Vanessa Weaver, a Clinton appointee; Skip Rutherford, a Clinton fund-raiser who lives here; George Bruno, a New Hampshire activist; and Peter Knight, a Washington lobbyist and longtime Gore fund-raiser. Bruce Lindsey, former White House aide and now an Arkansas lawyer, also backs Clark. Clinton had urged Clark to enter the race, but neither he nor Gore is expected to take sides in the primary fight. Clark's team was exploring several venues in Little Rock for an announcement, including a park named for World War II Gen. Douglas MacArthur, a Little Rock native. This site would underscore what Clark's advisers consider his greatest strength: his longtime military background. Clark greeted reporters with a "good morning," as he climbed into a two-seat sports car and left his headquarters. Some of his aides had already gathered for the meeting, including Fabiani and Rutherford. Others, including Klain and Bruno, were still making their way to the Arkansas capital. Clark, 58, believes his four-star military service would counter Bush's political advantage as a wartime commander in chief, friends say. The retired general has been critical of the Iraq (news - web sites) war and Bush's postwar efforts, positions that would put him alongside announced candidates Howard Dean (news - web sites), Sen. Bob Graham (news, bio, voting record) of Florida and Rep. Dennis Kucinich (news, bio, voting record) of Ohio as the most vocal anti-war candidates. It would be a long-shot bid. Just four months before voting begins, Clark would be competing against candidates who have had months to raise money, build organizations in key states and recruit the party's top political talent. But the strategists assembled in Little Rock on Tuesday are among the party's best. An Internet-fueled draft-Clark movement has developed the seeds of a campaign organization and more than $1 million in pledges. Clark's team urged supporters from the draft Clark committees to travel to Little Rock for the announcement. Clark's resume is formidable — Rhodes scholar, first in his 1966 class at West Point, White House fellow, head of the U.S. Southern Command and NATO (news - web sites) commander during the 1999 campaign in Kosovo. Clark's local office said no announcement was planned for Monday or Tuesday but it was noncommittal about the rest of the week as supporters anxiously awaited his decision. Nearly 12 years after Clinton announced his first campaign, Arkansans were excited at the prospect of backing another favorite son. "He almost has to (run) in light of everything that's happened," said Little Rock lawyer Phillip McMath, a friend of Clark's since ninth grade. "He seems to be campaigning and getting his ducks in a row." Jean Wallace, a classmate of Clark's from grammar school, has organized Warriors for Wes, a group of Clark classmates named after the mascot at their alma mater, Hall High School. She said the supporters were ready to travel the country to tout Clark's candidacy the way "Friends of Bill" organizations crisscrossed the country campaigning for Clinton. "We are eagerly awaiting an announcement very shortly. There are thousands of people across the country doing the same thing, people who have put their hearts and time and resources into this effort," Jeff Dailey, spokesman for Draft Clark for President 2004, said. The group, one of several Draft Clark groups, boasts of 166 coordinators in 50 states. "In New Hampshire, there are many people ready to move out if they're given the green light," said Bruno, one of Clinton's earlier backers in the key primary voting state. Clark is scheduled to deliver a speech at the University of Iowa on Sept. 19.
Huh? The U.S. removed a blood-thirsty dictator from power and put him on trial, lost *zero* American lives and helped restore order in Kosovo, but because we "wasted tons of ordnace," it was a mistake? Dude, seriously...
