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Watch 1,400 Carrier Air Employees lose their jobs

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by ipaman, Feb 11, 2016.

  1. baubo

    baubo Member

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    Conjuring up some of my public school education here since I don't want to use too much abstract stuff. And instead just use real history since you want to use US History to support you.

    But I think I remember that capitalism brought monopolies like Standard Oil and socialist government policies to break them up. And people prospered while big oil today are still alive and filthy rich.

    Capitalism brought crappy working conditions for factory workers for little money, and socialist government policies to institute minimum wages. Factory workers started getting treated like human beings and factory owners did not, in fact, quit and USA become a ghost nation.

    Capitalism brought in smoggy air pollution and cities were looking like China today before socialist government institution EPA decided companies can still operate while not making an entire nation wake up in the morning and not be able to see the Sun through the thick smog.

    I have never seen anything in American history that supports absolutely no regulations is good for the country, nor government regulations that have crippled the country. Where this narrative changed I don't know. But that's stuff above I learned before I turned 18 using, yes, a government supported program called the "public school" which I used as a launching point to become a tax payer and contributor to society. Again, socialist values that in a perfectly capitalistic society, many kids would not receive because of the cost.

    If I can learn think deeper than "capitalism good, socialism bad" from my public school education that people love to dump on, I think everyone should be able to at least think to this degree with regards to our country. Don't you think?
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. TheresTheDagger

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    Who said no regulation is the proper thing?

    This is the way people argue something these days. It's either its gotta be perfect or its EVIL. EVIL I SAY.

    Here's a hint...in my post you quote, I started by saying:
    ...meaning there are inherent faults in the system.

    Yet, despite this it is still the best system since it rewards innovation, risk taking, hard work, teamwork, and out of the box thinking. It's what pushes us forward. Profit, drives the engine because it appeals to that part of human nature we all acknowledge exists. That is (for lack of a better word) greed.

    Greed in all forms. Greed for money. For power. For security. For the ability to provide for our loved ones. For the desire to be remembered. For the desire to push humans along. For love. For the ability to help others. Name it. Greed exists and has always driven humankind forward despite its obvious pitfalls.
     
  3. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    A 100 of those years had slave labor in continuation of the previous 200, the same time frame included stealing and seizing land and mineral wealth from natives on the threat of mass murder, child and immigrant exploitation while banning them and racial minorities and non-white immigrants from property ownership, union membership, law practice or any kind of higher education, banning women from getting loans without male co-signers or inheriting property. Progressive regulation, socialist theory and populist revolt combined with government reform created the greatest economy in the world, not your naive deference to capitalism.
     
  4. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    Environmentalists shed a tear over it all the time. I'm not in their wheelhouse but don't pretend people haven't been clamoring for alternatives to oil.
     
  5. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    Better attitude, livelier music.
     
  6. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Democratic socialism as advocated by Sanders. You can call it social democratic if you want.

    Well, have you ever been to Germany or say the Netherlands? life is good and their economies are good. You can debate which one is the "strongest andmost vibrant economy in the world" or naively be: USA! USA! USA!

    However, the life expectancy of the average white American who has not gone to college is going down. (google it). The life expectancy of African Americans is far below that of these countries. The life expectancy of wealthy Americans compares favorably to those countries. In Sweden the life expectancy of the lowest quintile is virtually the same as the highest quintile.
    The lowest 20% in the US has a life expectancy that is pretty much third world level.

    Of course we could talk about the average hours worked per week, how much vacation, whether they have health care etc.

    Ask yourself as Pope Franicis does: what is the purpose of an economy"

    I think we may have a higher percentage of multi-millionaires and billionaires. Not even sure of that. Research it if that will help you remain happy with our economy.
     
  7. glynch

    glynch Member

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    One reason is corrupt elections that have stolen elections from folks like Sanders who are in favor of unions. As in many countries this type of behavior has been supported by the USA. Not as blatant say as in Chile as is now admitted we actually helped Pincohet the dictator to overthrow the democratically elected president.

    The safety valve of having ambitious and or starving Mexicans to cross the border to the USA so they don't revolt against their rulers. The cream of the Mexican working class comes to the US with the cost of raising them born by Mexico, but the US receiving the fruits of their work.

    In short many reasons.
     
  8. TheresTheDagger

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    Germany and Sweden don't spend 630 billion dollars annually on Defense spending.

    Imagine what we could do with our economy or health care if we didn't either. Alas....

    It's not as simple as "Switch from Capitalism to National Socialism or Democratic Socialism" or whatever its being called these days.
     
  9. hlcc

    hlcc Member

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    Germany, Netherlands, Sweden etc didn't become strong vibrant economies by being bastions of protectionist policies.
    Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, etc actually rank in the top 10 for the Global Enabling Trade Index (better than US).
     
  10. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    I'm no Bernie fan, but watching clowns like yourself discuss "wealthy individuals"in hushed, reverent tones makes you into a such a downstairs plebe b**** it's just amazingly awesome.

    Good luck joining that coterie. Meanwhile go get your fn shoeshine box. I'm looking scuffed.
     
  11. PhiSlammaJamma

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    I didn't like the announcement either. I think you do what they did in Moneyball. You make it quick and give a phone number/packet to call for more information, and get out of there.

    Sad though.

    Irony, the Carrier Dome in Syracuse is not Air Conditioned. Look it up.
     
  12. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Yes... This "part" always seems to be forgotten.
     
  13. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Eisenhower said to tax companies at 90%, so that to avoid taxes they would hire more people to do more work, and create more people employed that became tax payers.

    DD
     
  14. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    What a novel idea! Let's try it!
     
  15. TheresTheDagger

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    Hushed reverent tones? Dude, I'm only typing. On the internet. Thousands of miles from you. How do you get "tone" from an internet post? I'm honestly curious.

    You're so easy to trigger. Do you beat your dog when you go home from whatever job you under perform at after you boss calls you out yet again? Do you rail against "The Man" while drinking your self into a stupor holding your liquor bottle like a baby suckling her mommas tit? Do you wish so badly you could get to your socialist utopia so you could just truly bottom feed off of society once and for all? :mad:

    Its not too late to move to Sweden or Germany or Canada or wherever you feel they might coddle you. Hurry Hurry! They're waiting for you.

    Damn! Its always fun getting into the gutter with Sam Fisher...the leftie... using terms like "clown", "plebe b****" and "fn shinebox". I'm sure you have some more Goodfellas movie terms to use to really drive that point home. Waiting with baited breath!

    p.s. Meanwhile, you haven't refuted my point. But you know you can't....don't you. :cool:
     
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  16. TheresTheDagger

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    I have no problem considering major cuts in the defense budget AND entitlements in order to make a dent in the deficit. But we both know that's not gonna happen.
     
  17. Hakeemtheking

    Hakeemtheking Member

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    It is a guarantee that many of these 2000 Carrier employees will become either Trump or Sanders voters. Americans are justifiably pissed off about what's going on with their country, fearful for their future.

    **** the employer in the way it treated it's employees.
     
  18. glynch

    glynch Member

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    NAFTA, is another of the massive mistakes Hillary should have to apologize for.

    1)Bill and Hill used their political skills to aid the corporate elite and defeat those Dems, unions and working class representatives who opposed it and correctly pointed out the drawback for everyone but the 1%. .

    2) Bill and Hill brought the Wall Street guys into the heart of the Dem Party and went all in with financial deregulation..

    3) Oops the Iraq War. My bad, she learned. Except she did not. She can be credited for creating the failed state of Libya as a base for ISIS and Al Qaeda just a couple of years ago.

    4) Bill and Hill triangulated by catering to the conservatives by latching on to the mass incarceration drive. Oops, Bill Clinton apologized sort of for this about a year or so

    In short Bill and Hill brought us to the point in which much of the non AFrican American working class can't tell the difference between the two parties.
     
  19. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    That was painful to watch. I would like to know more about what is going on with Carrier and also what transition plans they are doing, Indianapolis and the Indiana government is.

    I am fully for free trade but I want deny that there aren't some serious problems that arise from it in the short term. The problem though is that the genie is out of the bottle and there is no way to put it back. It is the same with mechanization. That has probably cost as many if not more jobs in manufacturing than free trade. Yet you rarely hear calls by politicians that we should stop technological innovations that might cost jobs.

    Free trade is always going to be a difficult issue for many people. It will always have some negative effects especially to a country like the US that dominated the World economically for decades. Protectionism though will do far more damage in the longer run. I can't think of a single country that has benefited in the long run from protectionism but can point out several that have greatly benefited from free trade.

    Instead of stopping free trade and outsourcing we should instead be looking to develop new businesses, improving the competitveness of businesses here, and training for those who lose their jobs from things like this. The one thing I will agree with Sanders is that we need a stronger social welfare system that can still provide support for people who lose their jobs.

    Also for any that think that Trump will save manufacturing jobs should look at Trump's history. Trump has been quick to pull out of markets when he sees them becoming less lucrative than expected. Just look at Atlantic City. He might talk about winning and keeping jobs here but there is nothing his history that would suggest he would be willing to put local jobs ahead of profits.
     
  20. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Yeah Hitler and Bernie all the same. lol

    Yeah imagine what we could do with that money.

    At least half and quite a bit of our military spending is to prop up dictatorships that support our multi-nationals exploiting local workers or overthrowing democracies that are trying to raise the wages of the folks in foreign countries.
     

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