Harden - and how to build a championship team around him

simple. get shooters.

 

Bull****

Ty Lawson's shortcomings are on Lawson, not anyone else.

He simply has not been good with or without Harden.

The hyperbole is out of control on this board.

 

Harden spent his last year in OKC as a deadly spot up shooter early in games and as the primary ball handler in a lot of situations(mainly the 4th) as well.

Two different teams, two different situations.

When Harden isn't on the floor or doesn't have the ball on THIS team, everything goes to **** offensively. There's no one else with the gravity that he has to create the open looks that RW and KD were doing for him in OKC. There was hope that Lawson would be of help there, but something is severely wrong with him. People keep asking for him to play off ball more, but there is no one on this team that has shown the ability to do something with the ball when they have it.

Hell ****ing Pablo last year did more for this team as another creator than ANYONE on this team has done this year. That's not on Harden.

 

See the thread "http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=272529

Always talking offense when defense is our biggest problem. Seems like the front office has the same problem.

 

You do realize that the majority of possessions Harden doesn't shoot, assist or turn the ball over? You also realize that Harden possesses the ball a grand total of 6.2 minutes of the 48 minute game?

So what is keeping Lawson or anyone else from using those available possessions? It certainly hasn't stopped Josh Smith since his return. He's getting his usage so why can't Lawson? Lawson's usage last season in Denver was just over 20. You're telling me he can't get the same here but Josh Smith can?

 

To me, Harden is this generations Allen Iverson. The Talent is there, he'll single handily keep you in the playoff race and when the role players click you can put a great season together. The sad part is, in my opinion, I don't think you can win a championship with him. I think it'll always be "me, myself, and I" on and off the court with James. It doesn't matter who you put around him he's always going to do his thing, and that causes friction between players. Best thing to do is put a great coaching staff around him and hope he matures. My two cents.

 

Thank you. Could have saved myself like 15 minutes trying to make the crappy nba stats page to load if I had seen this post sooner.
I said one or both of them should be able to play off the ball.

Yeah. And when before 3 years I was also a blonde. AND?

In fact that's even worse. Because then you are claiming he's a malcontent who not due to inabillity but lack of trust to his teammates and willingness to work with them for the best of the team, is that he refused to play off the ball AT ALL.

Exactly.

The other guy doesn't have to light the world on fire to see if Harden is playing off ball.
Playing off ball is not just giving the ball to lawson and stand in the corner. It means ball movement. Screens.

Lawson is responsible for his perfomance. Harden is responsible for his perfomance. His perfomance shows lack of off ball playing. And that's for years now.

 

this thread isn't about Lawson. Who cares about him anymore, he probably is off the team in 5 days.

This thread is about Harden. What stops HARDEN when someone else has the ball to cut, to set screen to move?

 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">James Harden is 17th in the league in isolation possessions. Among teams that is.</p>&mdash; Seth Partnow (@SethPartnow) <a href="https://twitter.com/SethPartnow/status/698042822692175873">February 12, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

How? first make him play reasonable defense, not spectacular, just reasonable, no ball watching, not wandering around with flat foot. Then we start talking about how to design an offense. In NBA, most guards will make that shot if you give them enough time to gather themselves.

No prove, but I feel the way he is playing defense hurt team morale badly.

 

of course he can't be the same here because he isn't a good "fit" next to Harden for obvious reasons that have been discussed over and over.

Why does that surprise you about Josh Smith. Hes never seen a shot he doesn't like. It's part of the reason why hes never truly had much sucuess in this league because he thinks hes better than what he really is. The days of JS being a relevant player over the course of a season are over.

 

The talent is in place.
The system is not.

Offensively - we need more consistent shoots. PERIOD.
We need more movement.

I think the Pick and Roll is fine but I think more movement without the ball helps
IMO I would work on catch and shoot senarios
Come around the pick . . . catch and shoot
[Dale Ellis Style]

They need far more defensive communitions

Rocket River

 

Harden would be best paired with a big who can set screens, roll, or pop. That pick and roll would be unstoppable. Howard and Cappela can roll, but they can't pop. Then have another player, either wing or guard, that can not only shoot, but is good at cutting. Everyone keeps on harping on shooters, but we have a lack of guys that are good moving off the ball. Fill in the other two spots with 3 and D guys, and that's a very, very good starting 5. Also, it'd be great to have the ability to have an all 3 point shooting lineup. For example if Cappela is our future starting center, to have a PF that could slide to C in small lineups that can shoot 3s, or have a guy like Kelly Olynyk backing up Cappela to give the offense a different look.

 

Does anyone on our team cut? Is that part of our offense? Or are we spread the floor and spot up for 3's.

Who on our team is doing all of this cutting? The closest we come is our bigs flashing to the hoop.

 

You guys realize Harden would be averaging 10+ assists a game if the other 4 teammates on the court could make spot-up threes reliably? And an assist for a 3pt FG should be considered more valuable than one for a 2pt FG.

If Harden got 1.5 assists for a 3pt shot made from his pass (this should actually be a thing), he'd probably be top 10 at least

 

So am I now correct in assuming that you're conceding the fact that you were incorrect about Harden being top 5 in the league in dribbles and time of possession?

Why isn't Harden playing off the ball here? Because that's not the way we play. Guys here spot up for 3's. Which of our players cut to the hoop?

In order for Harden to play off the ball then somebody has to be on the ball. Who is that? Beverley? Ariza? Brewer? Terry?

 

who cares. that's completely irrelevant. CP3 and Wall could average 20+ assist if there teammates made more shots. See how that sounds? maybe you should focus on what the real problem is instead of trying to defend a players individual numbers. Well thats if you actually care about getting W's over a players individual stats.

 

exactly.

it's not that simple.

who's the league assists leader this yr.? iirc it's rondo (i wanted him instead of ty). it's not chris paul who has reddick on his team.

plus, who's gonna consistently score if you pass me the ball in the last seconds while i'm not set?

 

Why would they give a sh''t? Harden is a chucker getting paid millions and is the supposed leader. Obviously being a defensive role player doesn't get you star status and money or the strong voice needed to be heard in the organization.

 

This team was fine until Harden got fat and decided to stop moving when he didn't have the ball