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Israel says it will expel Arafat

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Oski2005, Sep 12, 2003.

  1. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Member

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    JERUSALEM, Sept. 11 — The Israeli government said Thursday that it would expel Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat from the occupied territories, although such a move could be several weeks away. As massive protests broke out across the occupied territories, Arafat vowed to resist any Israeli attempts to remove him and the new Palestinian prime minister abandoned plans to form a new government.

    WITHIN AN HOUR, thousands of marchers rushed to Arafat’s headquarters in Ramallah in the West Bank, ringing the compound to protect him from what they feared would be an immediate Israeli move to seize him.
    Arafat emerged flashing a V-for-victory sign and told the crowd, “Abu Ammar is staying here,” referring to himself by his nom de guerre.
    “We are on sacred land, and we will protect our holy Christian and Muslim places,” he said, using a bullhorn. “We send a message to the detainees, and to the prisoners: Together, all the way to Jerusalem.”
    He then led the crowd in a chant, waving his finger in rhythm: “To Jerusalem, to Jerusalem, to Jerusalem.”
    Arafat’s choice for prime minister, Ahmed Qureia, said he was dropping his efforts to form a new Palestinian government in light of the “crazy decision,” which he said would destroy “stability and peace in the region.”
    Arafat’s Fatah faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization distributed leaflets warning that “those who are planning expulsions, killings and assassinations will not be safe from the destructive
    consequences.”
    “Our people and our factions and our national Islamic forces will not let this criminal decision pass without consequences,” it said.

    ISRAEL ‘WILL REMOVE THIS OBSTACLE’
    The security Cabinet’s decision, which was taken in defiance of U.S. opposition, dramatically recast the Israeli-Palestinian dispute as a personal confrontation with Arafat, 74, the president of the Palestinian Authority.
    “Recent days’ events have proven again that Yasser Arafat is a complete obstacle to any process of reconciliation,” the government said in a statement. “Israel will act to remove this obstacle in the manner, at the time, and in the ways that will be decided on separately.”
    Israeli sources told Reuters that security ministers ordered the army to come up with a plan to carry out its decision.
    The decision to give the army substantial time to draw up plans was cast as both a concession to U.S. opposition and an opportunity for Qureia to take steps to cool the violence that has swept the region in recent weeks.
    But Qureia spurned the apparent opening.
    “This is an adventurous and grave decision that ... finishes off any attempt by me to form a new Cabinet,” said Qureia, the speaker of the Palestinian parliament, whom Arafat nominated for prime minister over the weekend after Mahmoud Abbas. “This grave and adventurous decision would not only blow up the Palestinian territories but also the entire region.”

    OTHER OPTIONS ON TABLE
    Eight of the 11 members of the security Cabinet were in favor of expulsion, and two were opposed, Israel TV reported. Sharon, who has not made his view public, was scheduled to meet later with his full Cabinet.
    In addition to Arafat’s expulsion, strategic decisions on the agenda include a possible reoccupation of the Gaza Strip, where Hamas leaders are based, Israeli security officials said.
    Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom said Arafat must be expelled as an obstacle to peace despite U.S. objections.
    “I think there are some situations in which we have to make decisions ... that are completely cut off from outside influence,” Shalom told Israeli Army Radio before the Cabinet meeting.
    The Israeli military had already begun making preparations for Arafat’s expulsion in the near future and was waiting for the security Cabinet’s decision, a security official told the AP on condition of anonymity.
    Signaling its readiness to try to seize Arafat, the army took over the Palestinian Culture Ministry and an uninhabited structure overnight near Arafat’s headquarters as apparent lookouts, witnesses said.

    U.S. REJECTS ISRAELI MOVE
    A spokesman for the State Department repeated Thursday that the United States opposed any move to exile Arafat because it could expand his appeal to violent militants. “It would just give him another stage to play on,” the spokesman said.
    But some in Israel have endorsed even stronger measures.
    In one of the most strident comments yet from the mainstream Israeli press, the English-language Jerusalem Post called in an editorial Thursday for the assassination of Arafat “because the world leaves us no alternative.”
    Another newspaper, Yediot Ahronot, quoted Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz as telling two people in his inner circle that expelling Arafat was the least Israel should do and that killing him should be considered.
    Proposals to assassinate Arafat were not on the security Cabinet’s agenda, a security official told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.

    RESPONSE TO NEW BOMBINGS
    Sharon cut short his visit to India this week to consider Israel’s response to two suicide bombings Tuesday by the militant Islamist group Hamas that killed 17 people, including the bombers, at a bus stop near Tel Aviv and at a popular coffee house in Jerusalem. Dozens of bystanders were maimed and wounded.
    In a first response, Israel stepped up its campaign against Hamas, dropping a half-ton bomb on the home of a senior official, Mahmoud Zahar, on Wednesday.
    Zahar survived the bombing — the first time that Israeli forces have targeted a Hamas official in his home — but his eldest son and a bodyguard were killed. Twenty-five other people were wounded, including three women and five children, hospital officials said.

    Hamas’ military wing threatened to widen its bombing campaign and target Israeli homes and high-rise buildings. The group’s military wing issued a statement Wednesday claiming responsibility for the bombings Tuesday, saying they “came as the beginning of our retaliation for the enemy’s crimes against our people.”
    The organization already had threatened unprecedented revenge for Israel’s failed attempt to kill Hamas leaders, including its founder, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, in an airstrike over the weekend.
    Israeli security forces were on high alert Thursday, particularly in Jerusalem, and police checkpoints caused massive traffic jams. Earlier in the day, Israeli forces in the West Bank blew up two houses, one south of Arafat’s compound, the other in the suburb of Beitunia.
    Israeli tanks also shelled a Palestinian police post east of Khan Younis overnight, but no one was injured, Palestinian police and rescue workers said.

    BUSH CALLS FOR TERROR CRACKDOWN
    As tension escalated in the region, President Bush on Wednesday called on Qureia to crack down on terrorism and said the United States had not abandoned its blueprint for peace in the Middle East despite the violence and political turmoil.
    Bush told reporters in the Oval Office that Qureia’s job was to “consolidate power within his administration, to get the security forces under control, all the security forces, and then unleash those security forces against killers.”

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    Holy crap. Maybe this will work, but my gut instinct is that the sh*t has hit the fan now.
     
  2. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Wow. This is gonna get really ugly. If they do this, if this isn't just posturing, I don't see any way that this won't errupt. As if there was any doubt, the Roadmap is a dead end.
     
  3. Friendly Fan

    Friendly Fan PinetreeFM60 Exposed

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    I just hope Israel uses one really bomb, so they kill everyone within a few hundred yards of Arafat. Maybe MOAB. If they are going to do Israel the favor of congregating, Israel might as well kill 1000 birds with one stone.
     
  4. Franchise2001

    Franchise2001 Contributing Member

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    I still think they should go after Hamas and Islamic Jihad as soon as possible.. they are the real danger.
     
  5. BBnP4l

    BBnP4l Member

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    Russia, Palestine and the US say Israel won't.
     
  6. BBnP4l

    BBnP4l Member

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    I hope Arafat is in Tel Aviv at the time too.
     
  7. mleahy999

    mleahy999 Member

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    Arafat should be kicked out on fashion violations alone. Does he have to wear that same outfit over and over again? Go to Dillards and get a suit. Grub.
     
  8. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20030911-084139-7964r.htm
    A peace process in reverse




    In the wake of Tuesday's twin suicide bombings, the peace process — or what's left of it — seems to be rapidly disintegrating. Israel's security cabinet voted yesterday to expel Palestinian Authority (PA) Chairman Yasser Arafat from the West Bank. While the cabinet has delayed the actual implementation of such a move, the announcement clearly indicates that Israel is running out of patience with the status quo. The Israeli reaction is in response to the fact that Mr. Arafat is sitting in his compound in Ramallah, sending money to terrorist groups and working behind the scenes to thwart the development of an alternative Palestinian leadership that might be willing to move against terrorist organizations. Mahmoud Abbas, who resigned as Palestinian prime minister last weekend, blamed Mr. Arafat's behind-the-scenes sabotage in part for his departure.
    A growing number of Israelis and Palestinians appear to think that Mr. Arafat's removal from the scene is an essential condition for improving the situation. Saying that it is intolerable to allow Mr. Arafat to continue fomenting terrorism, while his own physical safety is protected, the Jerusalem Post yesterday unprecedentedly called for his assassination. Also yesterday, Mr. Arafat had an ugly confrontation with Palestinian Gen. Nasser Youssef, nominated to serve as interior minister by new Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Korei. The Jerusalem Post reported that Mr. Arafat stormed out of a meeting of Fatah's central council in Ramallah after Gen. Youssef called him "the most incompetent revolutionary leader in history." In response, Mr. Arafat, as he stalked out of the room, hurled insults at Gen. Youssef. (Palestinian sources deny he spat at Gen. Youssef.)
    It is hardly surprising that Palestinians, as well as Israelis, are running out of patience with Mr. Arafat. His mendacity and duplicity have brought them nothing but suffering and misery. Ever since he signed the Oslo I agreement 10 years ago tomorrow with Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin at the White House, Mr. Arafat has played a double game: stating publicly a desire for a peace, while working behind the scenes to undermine it. From the beginning of the peace process, Mr. Arafat permitted the Palestinian media that he controls to engage in anti-Semitic, anti-Israeli incitement, and refused to take action to uproot terrorist groups. In 2000, he rejected the opportunity to build a contiguous Palestinian state in the 97 percent of the West Bank. Since the current wave of violence began nearly 36 months ago, more than 800 Israelis have died in the violence, and the Palestinian death toll is more than double that number.
    The question now is where the parties go from here. President Bush's road map, which appears virtually finished, was a last-gasp effort to salvage the peace process after Mr. Arafat torpedoed it at Camp David three years ago, then unleashed a wave of violence in September 2000 that continues to this day. Aside from Mr. Arafat himself, another significant factor in the deteriorating situation may be the upsurge in violence in Iraq. There was reason for optimism that, with Saddam Hussein out of power and Iraq being stabilized, that Washington would gain leverage to press both Israelis and Palestinians into making concessions for peace. But the recent upsurge in violence in Iraq may have undercut Washington's ability to press the parties to move forward. Now, almost 10 years to the day since the signing of Oslo I, the peace process seems to be on the verge of being replaced by a higher magnitude of violence and chaos.
     
  9. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    The one way to help Arafat gain more popularity is to threaten to throw him out. Democratically elected leaders who are forced out by an oppressive govt. usually gain more favorable status among their constituants.
     
  10. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Saw this coming.

    It may hurt in the short term, but I think it will help in the long term.

    They should expel Sharon too.

    DD
     
  11. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    I don't agree that Sharon could be expelled either. I know it's a pipe dream, but I wish that both men would remove themselves.
     
  12. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Why on earth would Sharon be expelled. He was elected by the Israeli people after the liberal Ehud Barak offered many concessions and the only response was a wave of terror that continues to this day. Sharons strong military response is necessary so the Palestinians realize they cannot win this war.
     
  13. Major

    Major Member

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    Sharons strong military response is necessary so the Palestinians realize they cannot win this war.

    Except that hasn't worked. It's only gotten even more Israelis killed.

    This is the similar to our response in Vietnam, where we simply didn't understand the motivations or willingness to fight of the enemy, and as a result, thought we could bomb them into submission. Israel's in a bit of a bind because they can't simply walk away, but the only result of the current strategy is a bunch of dead people on both sides and an even more determined and organized terror organization.
     
  14. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Major,

    The only thing they have not tried and are doing now, is to target the leaders who send these suicide bombers.

    They should have been going after the leaders all along.

    DD
     
  15. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    I'm not sure it hasn't worked. There were not many military operations by the Israelis during the 1990's. Only concessions and diplomacy. The intifada only started 2 years ago. Wars often last much longer than that.

    If this really is similar to Vietnam, except that they are neighbors, then Israel has no choice but to win militarily. Or do you think peace would have worked in Vietnam?
     
  16. Major

    Major Member

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    The only thing they have not tried and are doing now, is to target the leaders who send these suicide bombers.

    They should have been going after the leaders all along.


    I agree with that - the latest targetting over the last few weeks is a new strategy. It will be interesting to see if it works. My guess is no b/c Hamas can easily replace its leaders, but who knows.

    If this really is similar to Vietnam, except that they are neighbors, then Israel has no choice but to win militarily. Or do you think peace would have worked in Vietnam?


    Its similar to Vietnam only in the methodology being employed, not in the substance of the problem. In both cases, one side (us, Israel) are fighting a battle that's irrelevent to the other. The Vietnamese didn't care if we killed some of their troops - they always had more, and theirs were willing to die. They saw public opinion turning against us and knew that they could hold out longer than us. We thought we could simply fight on our terms and our overwhelming military would be enough. Simply put: We didn't understand the enemy.

    Israel, similarly, seems to think that the way to win this is to kill the enemy. That may be a part of it, but the underlying problem is that these terror groups don't care if they lose members. They use that as a tool to recruit more, and the people involved take pride in dying, so scaring them off through retaliation doesn't work. You might slow them down by taking away their short-term capabilities, but you'll never really get to the heart of the problem this way.

    The solution is political, as unappealing as that sounds. You have to understand the culture first and then try to find a solution that resonates with that culture - NOT one that necessarily makes sense to us. I don't know enough about the culture to know in detail what makes them tick, but honor (within the family and the culture) is a big part of it. From what I've been told, the concept of honor is far more important than even that of freedom in many parts of the culture. That's one reason finding suicide bombers is so easy - tell them its honorable, and they'll line up for it. The ideal solution (and I don't have it) is to find a way that plays to those quirks in the culture that are so important to them but far less so to us.
     
  17. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    Wow, this could go from bad to worse.
     
  18. F.D. Khan

    F.D. Khan Member

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    Great. The more problems they have there, the more we in the US seem to have to pay $$ for it.

    Honestly, both sides are wrong and who cares what they do. I think they deserve each other. Just let them fight as long as (a classic fdk line) they quench their thirst after a hard day of fighting with a nice refreshing Coca-Cola.

    Be nice to both sides, but cut funding to both sides. Then they can both cool off to our financial gains!

    Either that or a pay-per-view Sharon vs. Arafat match! I'd pay to see that!
     
  19. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    Dude, that would rule! Winner takes all grudge match!
     
  20. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Yes, there must be a political solution. At some point, there will have to be a separate Palestinian state that respects the right of Israel to exist. Now, while I agree on that, I don't believe it should be pursued at all times. Israel has to get to a negotiating point, to get past the culture of honor and the belief that the West will back down in the face of tragedy. The only way to do this, IMO, is to crush their hopes of defeating Israel. I don't see how else we can bring back the Palestinians to the negotiating table. We couldn't negotiate with USSR until the regime collapsed and they had no choice. Same with Japan, Germany, etc.
     

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