Great point HeyPee. According to the admins, the Rockets as well as the legit media check this site for feedback, rumors, etc. In the world of internet fan sites, ClutchCity is IT. Period. Is the Rockets had started their own forum from the beginning and it was an established site, then so be it. The last thing ya'll (the Rocket lurkers) need to do is try to turn fans away from this site, which is what you would be doing if you were start up your own BBS. Byt the way, our unis suck. Change them. To RED. ------------------ "We got f*cking smashed every day. And then when we came here to Beverly Hills, we had drugs, we had chicks, we had orgies. I thought I'd died and gone to f*cking Rome" ---Ozzy Osbourne, on the early days of Black Sabbath
By Jeff: They absolutely do not expect to compete with ClutchCity.net. In fact, in the words of one of them, "Don't worry about our forum competing with yours. You have such a loyal following and good reputation, it will not effect you at all." How will it NOT compete? I realize the Rockets respect this site, but my whole point is why do it at all?? I can't think of an appropriate analogy, but this site is the best with the most loyal following. There is NO point making us go somewhere else to tell them the uniforms suck and the Power Dancers are lame. ------------------ "We got f*cking smashed every day. And then when we came here to Beverly Hills, we had drugs, we had chicks, we had orgies. I thought I'd died and gone to f*cking Rome" ---Ozzy Osbourne, on the early days of Black Sabbath
Jeff, Then how do they expect to drive traffic/clicks to their site? Why doesn't somebody from the Rockets post in this thread? Mango ------------------ Spring Cleaning!!! [This message has been edited by Mango (edited February 15, 2001).]
Why do it??? Hmmmm. Let's see. They do it because it does increase traffic. That doesn't mean it will draw people from here. This isn't like a grocery store where you pick one or the other. On the internet, we have the luxury of reading as much as we want. I literally read through a dozen different hoops/sports websites every day. I scan probably 10 or 15 different newspapers, etc. Variety is a good thing. Besides, this IS, after all, a fan driven site. While it may be lurked by people from all over the place, many of them aren't interested in posting. Some are. Some may eventually. Some may never. How many people have come in here and said, "I've lurked in here for years but this is my first post?" That is the nature of this. Now, why won't the Rockets.com forum compete with cc.net? Well, there are plenty of basketball forums out there on fan and media sites as well as the usenet. Why don't any of you guys use them? Or do you? Bottom line: THIS is the BEST one. As long as loyal fans come here and talk about the Rockets, this BBS will remain the big success it has become. It is not being disloyal to check out other websites. It is being diverse. Part of it, to use marketing verbage, is brand loyalty. We keep coming here because we've been coming here for a long time. We STAY here because we know this is the BEST place on the net to discuss the Rockets (or Napster or yo mama - oh, sorry, that's the BBS Hangout. ). This is no surprise and no matter what the forum is at rockets.com, it will never be what we already have. Just like other forums don't hold a candle to the cc.net BBS, neither will rockets.com. Ultimately, everyone knows where to come for the real scoop on what the fans are thinking. So what if they do a forum of their own. Let them. ------------------ Me fail English? That's unpossible.
Maybe my post got misinterpretated. I was not suggesting competition. I was suggesting that Rocketball needs to do more than build a website to maximize the usefulness of the Internet to communicate with their customers. Rocketball could stand to take better strides to improve their customer relationship management (CRM). They can do that by improving their internal communication infrastructure (a fancy phrase for using the Internet for communication, which they are doing), and by treating cc.net as useful media outlet to spread word on promotional and season-ticket campaigns. Look, they still haven't come out of lurk mode, although I did get an email response. I am told they can't come out of lurk mode!! The NBA is basically staking claim to all-things-Internet. So, all teams are playing it safe, and cow-towing. The don't want to post here for fear that Stern will object and say they are usurping his monopoly over the internet medium for basketball. If they provide Internet communication with us fans via their website, I will go there to register for newsflashes, promos (whatever). But, I would hope they also would use cc.net, as they do other media outlets. Lurking is unnecessary. So, just tell Stern the fan base objects to him blocking customer communication between Rocketball and cc.net. Rocketball, Ltd, should be allowed to maximum the Internet for its CRM needs. EVERY OTHER INDUSTRY DOES!!
OK, I suppose I’m one of those so-called “lurkers.” After viewing some of the replies in this and a couple of other threads about the Rockets organization being unresponsive to e-mail and failing to provide an electronic medium to communicate with its fans, I felt the need to respond. I have been responsible for managing the content on rockets.com for the Rockets organization since January 2000. On rockets.com you will find a Fan Mail link allowing fans to submit any type of question, concern or opinion concerning the Rockets team, players or franchise. These e-mails are directed to me and I read each and every one of them. I either personally respond to each of these messages or forward them on to the appropriate party within our organization. For example, if you have a concern about your season tickets or the service you are receiving, I will forward your e-mail to our ticket services department. If your satellite system did not pick up a Rockets broadcast and you want to know why, your e-mail is forwarded to our broadcast department for a response. In addition, we also offer a free e-mail service, Rockets E-Blastoff, where fans can register to receive Rockets-related e-mails on a variety of topics. Fans can sign up for this service on rockets.com to receive information such as ticket specials, game notes and recaps, promotional events, postgame quotes, etc. You may or may not have noticed that rockets.com recently re-launched with a new design and more interactive elements. Included are e-mailboxes where you can send e-mails to Walt Williams, Matt Bullard, Carroll Dawson and Jim Boylen. We also now have a Rockets chat room and we will be adding message boards within the next month. Until the recent re-launch of our site, chat rooms and message boards were not an available option. Now, the NBA is allowing its teams the option to house chat rooms and message boards on their team sites. We have agreed to use both because we realize the importance of letting our fans have an additional forum to discuss Rockets-related issues with other Rockets fans around the world. As a Rockets fan myself, just like anyone else who uses this board, I enjoy periodically perusing clucthcity.net just to see what Rockets fans are saying. It’s not any form of organized research, as has been suggested, but rather a curiosity on my part as a Rockets fan. The bottom line is, if anyone ever has a question about anything pertaining to the Rockets, just let me know through Rockets.com or e-mail me at andreww@rocketball.com. The only answers we can’t provide are questions about potential trades, free agent signings, draft plans, or financial and salary information. It is a policy of CD’s, Rudy’s and the entire organization’s not to publicly discuss these issues. Thanks for giving me the opportunity of putting in my two cents. ------------------
Andy, Thanks for responding. Looks like you are doing a lot of email forwarding. So, what happens when you are on vacation...lol! You guys are understaffed. Many of us know what that is like. I personally have no complaints about how any one person has treated me in your organization. It is obvious you all love your job. I never meant organized research. Just meant to say Rocketball benefits from reading the pulse of cc.net. Local Radio is complaining about no Rocket's calls. We have that missing voice here. Use it as a true media outlet. Just like you would Radio or TV. I know a great deal about Internet affiliate marketing and promotion campaigns. Such campaigns exist all over (often undetected by the casual eye), and they often have stricter brand labeling and copyright policies than the NBA's, which Jeff told me about. Affiliate compaigns can happen without stealing revenue from the NBA office. In fact, it would increase it!! That's what the fans using the Internet want. What I see is cc.net wants absolute autonomy, but cc.net could use some advertising that could delivery traffic to your NBA site. CC.NET members and the Rockets could also benefit from PSAs being posted here and other promotional events. Surely there are the hardcore here who don't want any corporation from using this site as a media outlet, but I think Clutch would manage quite well doing it, and in the long run improve fan participation at both this site and rockets.com. Tell that to Stern. In the long run, you really don't believe Stern can (or is even trying to) prevent franchises from promoting their product on the Internet, anymore than he prevents you from doing it with radio and broadcast. Here is my first request. Please forward this question to the appropriate person: thx Andy, and don't be a stranger!! DISCLAIMER: I in no way speak for anyone else on this BBS regarding the above comments. Clutch may very well completely object to the notion of being a media outlet that promotes other sites. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited February 15, 2001).]
My question, heypartner, is how exactly do the Rockets decide which website to use for promotion? I've counted about 15 fan sites not counting the individual player sites. I can't speak for Clutch, but I don't know that promoting the Rockets here in any way other than what we already do would necessarily be a good idea. The advantage we have without accepting significant advertising or sponsorship is autonomy. Same deal with the Rockets. I'm glad the Rockets visit here and respond to our occassional queries, but anything beyond that runs the risk of us not being able to say whatever we want. One of the things that Clutch has always wanted is to keep the site private and fun. That's the reason he has shunned every opportunity he has been given to join networks, add sponsorships or use significant advertising. I'm glad that the Rockets like the site and even respond here, but anything beyond that seems like too much. ------------------ Me fail English? That's unpossible.
Jeff, I have a tendency to make the present overly important with an eye towards securing the long term. In the long term, Clutch may not be able to continue. Enough revenue to give him an assistant would secure the long term continuity and autonomy of Clutch, and thus cc.net. This really is not that big of a deal. I read some principles overshadowing logistics in your concerns. The implementation requirements of setting up Internet link affiliations is insignificant to a company like Rocketsball. The features of such technologies are meant to eliminate the political and affilliate management issues you state. Link affiliations have always been a sensitive subject amove Fortune 500s and their vendors/suppliers/distributors. The same applies to how the entertainment industry is using these technologies. In the longterm, the NBA and its franchises can increase revenues and fan participation by embracing the Internet in manners that are proven successful. In the longterm, Clutch can do no extra unwanted work or lose any more autonomy, yet likely being able to have an assistant. call this my form of dreamcasting.
Andrew, I know that you probably might not be able to control it, but what I want to see are more player highlights in .avi format so that I can actually see some highlights. I live in Utah so whatever I get to see of the game is what I see on ESPN or what I can download. For example, I was in CC.net Chat and they were going crazy when Cuttino made that 69-footer. I still haven't been able to see it. Thanks ------------------ Cuttino Mobley Online
heypartner: I can almost guarantee you that if this site ever gets to be so crazy that Clutch has to hire an assistant, that will be the end of cc.net. He has always told me that he will do it until it is no longer possible for him to continue and no longer fun. I venture to say that Keely, Brian, Will and myself (and you with the BBS) have done pretty much whatever Clutch has asked and, frankly, I am flattered that he has let me work on the site. I know how picky he is about getting stuff right so it is an honor to know that he trusts me enough to let me fiddle around here. But, Clutch has always been wary of walking the line between commercial site and fan site. Personally, I think not making money is part of what keeps this site the way it is. But, he should probably answer that himself. ------------------ Me fail English? That's unpossible.
Clutch could improve a lot with some minor parttime programming, that he simply doesn't have time for. I don't mean full-time. And Clutch could achieve better stability and longevity with his hardware/bandwidth and even software demands covered. Let's not forget, Clutch is doing all this management himself, and is still relying on a number of unpredictable support.
I have no idea how Clutch would make money on CC.net. I went to LiveHosting to see how much Clutch pays for hosting a month and damn it's a lot. I run Cuttino Mobley Online and I write like a small paragraph for each game and every now and then it's hard enough to do that. But then when the Rockets are on fire it's so much fun. Clutch stays up after every game to write a recap no matter how bad the loss or how great the win. Then during the offseason he teammed up with Jeff and kept the Rockets in Houston. ------------------ Cuttino Mobley Online
I think maybe you are equating "affiliate network" on the Internet as equivalent in politics and autonomy to traditional networks. That is not the environment of Internet affiliate networks. Autonomy is crucial to these. Revenue generation does not attempt to sacrifice autonomy that already exists. The Internet is a unique economy in that regard. A lot is dependent on the NBA's plans for the Internet. If they have no plans, my points are moot. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited February 15, 2001).]
Tell that to any affiliate sports network on the net. Cookie cutter sites, ridiculous banner ads, pop-up ads on occassion, etc. To be honest, the only way to maintain stability on the internet is to have complete autonomy and either do it for free or as a part of a non virtual business (i.e. a retail store that has an online store as well). Francis Fan: Just to clarify on <a href="http://www.livehosting.com">Livehosting.com</a>, Randy, their owner, is a big Rockets fan. They have discontinued their hosting to focus only on development. As a result, cc.net, SOR, my business site and only a few others are even maintained by them any longer. I met Randy during the SOR effort and he provided the hosting for SOR for free. He is doing the same for cc.net. They are a great bunch of people and one of the reasons we can maintain such diverse sites without the extreme costs charged by some ISP's. Not only are we getting great hosting for nothing but he is continuing to host us even after he sold off all of his other hosting business to focus on development. How is that for cool??? The guy LOVES the Rockets! ------------------ Me fail English? That's unpossible.
ugh! I'm sorry Jeff; that's just not true. You don't understand the software technologies available that ensure content is shared yet copywritten, all the while the affiliates maintain complete autonomy. Sports companies are not embracing these technologies like the entertainment industry is. But they can and will. Jeff, the word "affiliate" is not what you think it is on the Internet. It is NOT! I could describe the software technologies available that are designed to address ALL your concerns, yet deliver content and flexibility you couldn't imagine by looking at cookie-cutter sites. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited February 16, 2001).]
heyp: We'll just agree to disagree. I know for a fact that Clutch has no interest in making this a commercial site and no interest in the affiliate network aspects of it. He just wants it to be a fun fan site and that's exactly what it is. ------------------ Me fail English? That's unpossible.
First, I never said for-profit. Making money does not make your "for-profit", if you don't want it to. You are stigmatizing me as someone looking to change cc.net into a money maker. That is far from the truth, and I am close to taking offense if you continue to view my cc.net feedback as implying that. Don't place a fence between Clutch, you and I. I am not disagreeing. The day will come when the NBA has something to offer fan sites. And that will be because of how easy new technologies support revenue generation in hub-spoke traffic communities. The technologies make it very easy. Clutch just gets a check in the mail...no marketing or anything else you mention (aside from an extra tax form). Or, he could refuse the check and still be placed in the technology network. What shipping would Clutch be doing? You are exaggerating the logistics, imo. I would not be bringing up something that requires extra work. The only work it would require is the type Clutch loves, like designing a new area on the site for streaming-video content. You say, Clutch would never do this or that, but how many times have you heard him say, "I wish we could do this or that." That difference is where we part. Your first instinct is to protect cc.net's status quo; my first instinct is to think about cc.net's wish list....all the "wouldn't that be cool" things we always read that Clutch just has to wave off right now. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited February 16, 2001).]
This conversation is bordering on ridiculous. It's not really my place to speak for Clutch on any of these issues anyway. I'm out. ------------------ Me fail English? That's unpossible.
