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Better leader: Tracy McGrady or James Harden

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by TheRealist137, Jan 2, 2016.

  1. Rox11

    Rox11 Member

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    because nothing is wrong with his game on the court..
     
  2. Htownballer38

    Htownballer38 Member

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    He wasn't the leader then either. LOL The vet's were the leaders of this team.
     
  3. PeterKingX

    PeterKingX Member

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    TMAC won't have any game like 11pts and 8TOs, and said its just one game.
     
  4. Htownballer38

    Htownballer38 Member

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    This direct to Caeser. (Like said Michael didn't become a true leader until Phil got there) read this article dude.

    http://www.michaelleestallard.com/michael-jordans-transformation-contributed-to-his-success

    What sports fan in the 1980s and 1990s wasn’t inspired by Michael Jordan, arguably the greatest basketball player ever? His last-second jump shots, airborne dunks, and tenacious defensive coverage made him a crowd-pleasing favorite. Now Jordan has been recognized as the first professional athlete to become a billionaire. What can we learn from his success?

    When Michael Jordan began playing in the NBA, he epitomized excellence as an individual contributor. His superhuman feats during his first five seasons with the Chicago Bulls, however, were not enough to make them champions. Not until Phil Jackson became head coach and began to influence the young superstar did the Bulls finally make it to the big game.

    Jackson helped Jordan see the need to go beyond being a star and become what Jackson called a player “who surrenders the me for the we.” In the context of the Bulls, this meant playing as a team within the triangle offense that Jackson taught, not as an individual.

    Until that time Jordan felt he needed to win games on his own because he didn’t have confidence that his teammates would perform in the clutch. But a one-man show, even if it was a show put on by one of the game’s greatest players, was never going to be enough to get the Bulls to the top.
    Furthermore, Jordan spent little social time with his teammates and instead hung out with his entourage that followed him around on the road. Jordan’s self-reliance and social separation made his teammates feel like supporting actors on the Michael Jordan show.

    Phil Jackson could see the problem. So he went to Jordan and told him that the team needed his leadership, which would require his presence and effort to get to know his teammates personally. Having Jordan present with the team would strengthen the Bulls’ culture. Jordan’s presence and the trust he would put in his teammates would show he valued them as basketball
    players and as people.

    Convinced that Jackson was right, Jordan transformed himself into a force for connection. He began spending more time with his teammates on and off the court. Phil Jackson observed: “Jordan’s presence [affected] the psyche of the team . . . he challenged everyone to step up . . . before practice I often found him working one-on-one with young players.”

    Jordan no doubt learned from Jackson’s philosophy that everyone should feel like they have a seat at the table by keeping people informed and listening to their viewpoints. Jackson encouraged his players’ commitment to the team by quoting a passage from Rudyard Kipling’s The Second Jungle Book that describes the law of the jungle: “…the strength of the pack is the Wolf and the strength of the Wolf is the pack.”

    Jordan and Jackson worked together to convince the other Bulls players that they were a team that deserved the world championship. Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen pushed the team to reach a new level of physical conditioning and preparation, which reinforced the players’ beliefs that no team worked as hard or deserved a world championship more than they did.

    Jackson’s Chicago Bulls team accepted his philosophy of teamwork as a path to basketball greatness. As the strength of relationships among the team improved, the Bulls’ success rose to a new level. Beginning in 1991 when the Bulls won their first world championship, Jordan’s teammates sometimes made dramatic contributions to the games. In the past, when the score was close at the end of a game, Jordan always wanted the ball. After Jordan’s transformation, he trusted his teammates to make the big play during several pivotal situations.

    One such instance occurred in game six of the 1993 championship when the Bulls played the Phoenix Suns. Near the end of the game, down by a score of 98 to 96, the Bulls came down court and, instead of the expected pass to Jordan, the ball went to John Paxson who shot and scored a three-point jumper just before the buzzer went off to win the game. The press hailed it as “the shot heard around the world.” The following year in the final championship game against the Utah Jazz, Jordan passed the ball to his teammate Steve Kerr who hit a jump shot just before the buzzer to clinch another championship for the Bulls. Over the course of eight years, the Chicago Bulls won six championship titles.

    Michael Jordan responded by humbly making a personal commitment to his team and teammates rather than pridefully continuing as a one-man show, to the detriment of his team’s performance. The resulting connection and unity among the team and the performance that it made possible was the catalyst that transformed Jordan from being a great player into becoming a basketball legend.

    Michael Jordan is a leader who cares about people and cares about results. This is a powerful combination that is essential to successful leadership. These qualities contributed to Michael’s success as a businessman and basketball franchise owner. They helped him learn how to pull a team together to get through the inevitable tough times. They helped him become a leader who people want to follow.

    I expect he will accomplish even greater things in the years and decades ahead. Just as Jackson mentored Jordan, you can bet Jordan is mentoring other future leaders who go on to achieve success of their own. Their accomplishment will further enhance the leadership legacy of one of the game’s greats.

    This article originally appeared on Fox Business and ConnectionCulture.com.
     
  5. JCDenton

    JCDenton Member

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    Look at T-mac's playoff stats and the role players he had. With prime T-mac on this team (not even Orlando T-mac, just T-mac playing at his Houston best), we would have gone to the finals every year since getting Howard.

    Fact: T-mac is a true competitor, Harden isn't.
     
  6. rocketsballin

    rocketsballin Member

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    i cant beleive a lot of you think harden's better. when tmac was healthy he NEVER had a good supporting cast. other than one or two players everyone was borderline average or crap. tmac shut down dirk in the playoffs. unlike yao he elevated his game in the playoffs.

    i hope none o fyou are 99ers. cuz if you know basketball, not nba, you'd know tmac is the better player.
     
  7. Rox11

    Rox11 Member

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    This is such a landslide it is funny
     
  8. Badrose

    Badrose Member

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    Pete Chilcutt was a better leader compared to Harden or T-Mac
     
  9. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    I think they are talking about who is the better leader and team player vs. what you said who is the better individual player.

    Does not matter. Those fans did not get to see Orlando Mac but the Houston Mac was a pretty good facilitator.

    He wanted to facilitate, he was willing to do it. Injuries derailed his career and some of his questionable decisions to undergo surgery.....
    Lost his athleticism when he was 28 or 29. Bummer really

    Natural leader? Not so much but to be fair he said it was mostly Yao's team and he was going to roll with that and compliment him as the second go to guy.

    Turns out he became the go to guy. It was on him.
     
  10. Tom Bombadillo

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    Tracy McGrady's Rocket story is a sad one, and Harden is on the path to replicating Mcgrady. There is still time to fix it, but it is not looking good.
     
  11. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    McGrady's story can't get past the first chapter
     
  12. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    would have
    could have
    should have

    never these words

    did
    done
    won
     
  13. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Maybe. Maybe not.

    We know that Tmac did better off the court (not talking about private life)

    going to Darfur, doing things for kids in the off time

    He was already a dad like many NBA players and that helped him in his twenties

    He had some integrity as a guy in society, just not a natural leader on the court.

    He also wasn't one of the athletes that burned their money, he was alright with wealth management.
     
  14. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Oh yeah, let's discount Dream destroying the Lakers championship front court so we can sympathize and justify Tracy McGrady's complete failures for his Rockets tenure.

    The veterans on that team can't beat the Lakers in conference finals without Dream.

    86 Akeem would obliterate any mcgrady, prime or skirt steak, let's make that clear.
     
  15. Htownballer38

    Htownballer38 Member

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    Again Akeem wasn't the leader of that team at that time.
     
  16. Rox11

    Rox11 Member

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    you will never see these words again with Harden
     
  17. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    I looked up and he won the MIP (most improved) award and he did pretty ok after that if you knew what kind of curse the MIP holds.

    Boris Diaw is the first and only award winner to date to win an NBA championship as a player.

    Jimmy Butler was the last one.

    And Diaw is not a leader type.
     
  18. tycoonchip

    tycoonchip Member

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    I hope we are not comparing Jordan to Harden and think a new coach is going to help Harden out and become this "leader". With Jordan, there was a competitive mindset and ability to dominate on both ends of the court. It was the same with the other greats such as The Dream, Kobe, Moses, Yao, Drexler, Shaq, they could compete on both ends of the court. It would be one thing if the issue was just Harden not trusting his team mates. The issue is definitely "deeper" as some on this board have stated. Jordan didn't stand around the three point line at the same spot almost everytime not knowing what to do when he was without the ball in his hand. Like DaDakota has stated it isn't a mismatch if you score 30 but your defensive assignment scores 35 as well.
    If a coach can fix Harden and make him a defensive player and learn to play off the ball, then they deserve coach of the year and possibly decade.
     
  19. Tom Bombadillo

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    He is lucky he got to do that. Essentially an experience/vacation for him.
     
  20. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    He was the leader by dominating the series.
    Oh and winning the series. That's important.

    You'll never win an Olajuwon vs McGrady debate, because there is no debate. Olajuwon eradicates Tmac in any debate, like completely wipes him off the planet.
    <PRE>
    Tota Shoo Per
    Rk Player Age G GS MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST STL BLK
    1 Hakeem Olajuwon 23 5 5 210 53 102 0 1 49 70 27 29 56 10 11 20 7 19 155 .520 .000 .700 42.0 31.0 11.2 2.0 2.2 4.0
    2 Ralph Sampson 25 5 5 195 42 76 0 0 18 26 13 31 44 20 6 11 18 22 102 .553 .692 39.0 20.4 8.8 4.0 1.2 2.2
    3 Lewis Lloyd 26 5 5 154 32 69 1 2 9 10 9 5 14 23 4 2 13 11 74 .464 .500 .900 30.8 14.8 2.8 4.6 0.8 0.4
    4 Robert Reid 30 5 5 186 29 63 1 4 14 16 3 15 18 28 7 0 15 20 73 .460 .250 .875 37.2 14.6 3.6 5.6 1.4 0.0
    5 Mitchell Wiggins 26 5 0 112 25 46 0 1 7 9 9 4 13 9 4 0 10 9 57 .543 .000 .778 22.4 11.4 2.6 1.8 0.8 0.0
    6 Rodney McCray 24 5 5 214 22 41 0 1 9 11 6 31 37 41 5 1 6 11 53 .537 .000 .818 42.8 10.6 7.4 8.2 1.0 0.2
    7 Allen Leavell 28 5 0 50 7 28 2 5 8 9 1 5 6 14 9 0 3 5 24 .250 .400 .889 10.0 4.8 1.2 2.8 1.8 0.0
    8 Jim Petersen 23 5 0 72 7 21 0 0 3 5 7 22 29 2 0 2 1 10 17 .333 .600 14.4 3.4 5.8 0.4 0.0 0.4
    9 Craig Ehlo 24 1 0 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 .000 4.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
    10 Steve Harris 22 2 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
    11 Granville Waiters 25 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
    Team Totals 5 1200 217 447 4 14 117 156 75 142 217 147 46 36 73 109 555 .485 .286 .750 240.0 111.0 43.4 29.4 9.2 7.2
    </PRE>
     

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