Boki and Eddie. Should only athletic freaks come into the NBA without a total game.

It applies to athletic guys also. Look at Kwame Brown. How much better would he have been if he had solidified his game in college?

 

Tim Duncan would have been the no. 1 pick after his sophmore year.

 

That's debatable. Marcus Camby was actually rated higher by a lot of experts following Duncan's sophomore year. Duncan was well-served by waiting until he had 4 years under his belt. EG definitely would have as well, but you can't blame him for cashing in when he did. Most sane people would have done the same.

 

No, i dont think so.

Eddie and Boki along w/ all other players who are yet to step up their pro game were all drafted based on potential. Pro coaches would rather draft a guy like eddie after seeing his potential and develop it in the pros rather than let him play 4 years and then still adjust to the pro game after that. Guys like shane Battier are only drafted by proving their status, but if a guy like eddie comes out after 1 year, his value is highest. So from a players POV, you should go to the pros when your value is high, and i think that even pro coaches would rather develop a guy than let him stay in college and not face the compition that he would have in the pros.

 

I'm not so sure that staying in college is better for your game than leaving early. 1 NBA season almost equals 3 college seasons. How is playing almost a third as many games against far inferior competition better for your game than going against and learning from the best on a daily basis? Not to mention you're playing a totally different style. You're also getting training/conditioning from the best in the NBA. What staying in school does do is help your maturity, if for no other reason than simply coming in at an older age. Duncan and Bird would have been just as good.

 

Well I think they should go to college for at least one year. And it's up to the teams to decide if they want to draft them youngn's....

I still think there should be a farm system or an enhanced developmental league like the minor leagues for baseball....

 

ummm, that was one of the best drafts ever. McDyess #2, Stackhouse #3, Rasheed #4, and Garnett #5...with Stoudamire, Micheal Finley, Ratliff, Brent Barry and Kurt Thomas.

Even with that depth...thing about it was people forget how much of a lock that Wake Forest sophmore, Joe Smith, was for the #1 pick in the year Duncan was a sophmore. It wasn't debatable, imo; the guy was lighting up the NCAA and ACC....both his freshmen and sophmore years.

Rasheed Wallace was a sophmore, as well.

Amazingly, that draft was outdone by the following year...Duncan's junior year....with Iverson #1, SAR #3, Ray Allen #5, Marbury #4, Camby #2, Walker #6, Kobe, Nash, Jermaine O'Neal, Peja.

By waiting his Senior yr, he faced this top 10 lineup:

Keith Van Horn
Chauncey Billups
Antonio Daniels
Tony Battie
Ron Mercer
Tim Thomas
Adonal Foyle
Tracy McGrady
Danny Fortson

I think we can safely say the Tim Duncan served himself mainly via money by waiting until the year he knew he'd be the #1 pick. Had Duncan gone the year of Smith/McDyess/Stackhouse/Wallace/Garnett or
Iverson/Camby/SAR/Marbury/Allan/Walker...he'd still be the incredible player he is today....he just wouldn't have been the #1 pick.

 

I think there are more factors than just age and athleticism, just look at Harold Miner.

If Yao applied for the draft out of highschool, does anyone beleive that he would be lesser of a player? I think his game comes from his knowlage of the game (Well.. and the fact that he is 7'6".)

Some players need the experience of college ball and some don't. I think it's probably one of the hardest decisions of any draft now adays. Do you pick up the safe pick in Caron Butler or do you pick up for potential like Amare?

Bokie was supposed to be our Butler, a safe pick, and Griffin is supposed to be our Amare, the stupid and wasteful pick.

 

I was pissed when we took Boki over Qyntel Woods.

 

Agreed!

Everyone was really high on Boki, but I liked Qyntel, screw the fact that he was playing against community college or junior college players. He could have been that small forward we needed. Instead, we got either Dan Langhi or Peja Stojakovic, depending on who you listen to. I also liked Kareem Rush to back up Mobley...

I think that the NBA is too much into "potential" now rather than actual game. Sometimes, it works out (Amare Stoudemire), sometimes it doesn't (Kwame Brown, Eddie, Boki, etc so far). Complete game should be the factor of draft position. Still, as long as we see jaw-dropping dunks or a lights-out shooting display and they play no defense, I guess that makes everyone happy...

 

T-Mo is an example of a guy who should have come out early but didn't. After his first 2 seasons he was projected as a lottery pick based on his potential. But he never really improved that much during his last 2 years and was out of the first round completely. So it is definitely a smart move to come out early if you are projected to go in the top half of the first round.

 

-
Bostjan Nachbar
Houston Rockets
Position: F
Height: 6-9 Weight: 221

PPG 2.1
RPG 0.8
APG .2
SPG .14
BPG .14
FG% .355
FT% .500
3P% .200
MPG 5.5


-
Qyntel Woods
Portland Trail Blazers
Position: F
Height: 6-8 Weight: 221

PPG 2.4
RPG 1.0
APG .2
SPG .28
BPG .02
FG% .500
FT% .350
3P% .333
MPG 6.3

Almost the same Stats....

 

Not so. The NBA is not set up to develop player skills. The influx of players with undeveloped skills and a poor understanding of the game has definitely hurt the NBA and the plummeting ratings bear this point out. How can you expect these guys to develop their game when they end up sitting at the end of the bench? Any improvement these guys make as players will have to come from their "practicing" with NBA level players but it's this reason that the NBA is trouble with it's overall poor level of play. The colleges are able to do far more teaching on basketball fundamentals than is possible at the NBA level.

 

There is no quantifiable evidence of this. Here is a list of current stars or emerging stars who came into the NBA as HS or Fresh/Sophs or International 19yr olds or less.

Kevin Garnett
Tracy McGrady
Kobe Bryant
Jermaine O'Neal
Jason Kidd
Elton Brand
Mike Bibby

umm...that's 7 guys who will make the Olympic squad!!

Dirk Nowitzki
Chris Webber
Stephon Marbury
Toni Parker
Shareef Abdul Rahid
Rasheed Wallace
Mike Miller
Anfernee Hardaway
Baron Davis
Rashard Lewis
Lamar Odom
Corey Maggette
Ron Artest
Antonio McDyess
Caron Butler
Zach Randolph

Now I agree with you that the NBA plays too many games and doesn't have enough practice time as a team...but to stretch that to say it is bad for player development...that's too far. If the player wants to improve, they have every opportunity to do so.

The players I listed are not the full list of young players who have improved in the NBA, but those are all really good players and many of them are the top echelon. And please don't say all those players were fully developed when they came in, as if they didn't have anything more to learn...as I'm sure they'd all disagree with you. A lot of them have improved amazingly...enough so to question any comments about the NBA being a poor breeding ground for teaching basketball. Further, I contend that it is the best breeding ground for teaching PF skills...and could make an argument that PGs can only get so good without facing the speed of the NBA...as most PGs already know the deal, and they have to refine it in real-time, in real competition.

 

I'm sorry, but Duncan would have been the number 1 pick in both the 1995 and 1996 draft. In 1995 , Antonio McDyess had an almost legendary NCAA tournament performance. He came almost out of nowhere and dominated in his 2 games. His NCAA perfomance vaulted him to the #2 selection. Too bad his performance was only the 2nd biggest revelation that year. Tim Duncan play that March was even a notch or two greater than McDyess. And that is saying a lot.

Even though Joe Smith won ACC player of the year, eveyone was projecting after the tournament that Duncan was going to be special. Duncan would have been the number 1 pick that year.

In 1996, even though Camby outplayed Duncan in their one matchup, there wasn't a scout projecting Camby ahead of Duncan. Camby was all talent with little refinement. They both finished 1st team All-American that year though. But I assure you Duncan would have been the first pick that year.

 

I've always considered Eddie an underdeveloped high-school player (even though he had one year at Setton Hall). He's good, but not experienced. He has tons of potential. If Eddie had 4 years at Setton Hall, he'd be a top 3 pick once he came out. And, he'd be ready to start right away.

He's going to be a good one. Remember, Jermain O'Neal didn't start producing until his 5/6th year. This is Eddies 3rd coming up.

I have a feeling that JVG will demand more from him this year.

I hate it when EG takes 3 pointers. But that was just Rudy's way of giving time to EG until he put on some weight/strength.

EG is getting better. By the way, he needs at least 30 minutes a game. Not 24.

Just for some perspective, here are the minutes approximately for each starter from last year.

Francis: around 41
Mobley: around 41
Yao: around 29
Posey: around 28
EG: around 24

 

Joe Smith didn't just win ACC Player of the Year, he won National Freshmen of the Year followed by AP College Player of the Year his sophmore year.

I don't know what tournament you are talking about, but the ACC was young in 1995, and Wake Forest had the best PG in Randolph Childress as a senior (#19 pick), but Maryland was a one man team.

Duncan and Childress, as #1 seeds, got sent home early by Bryant Reeves...very embarrassing, don't you remember? So I wouldn't be saying Duncan was the surprise of that tourny. Maybe you are talking about the ACC tourney, but again, that was a very young ACC that year, and Wake Forest had the best PG.

read this if you want to remember the ACC tourney that Childress had:

http://www.hpe.com/2000/03/08/sports/308sports1.html

an excerpt:

as an aside, Joe Smith averaged 20.8ppg and 12rpg in 6 NCAA tourny games.

but really, the reason I'm arguing is because I remember everyone calling Joe Smith a lock for #1 in a field of great sophmores. If you say Duncan would have been taken ahead of Allan Iverson the next year, fine. But I remember Smith as one of those guys with incredible potential with great NCAA play to match, and very good NBA workouts. I don't see how you can say Duncan was a lock against Joe Smith that year.

 

Tim Duncan had a FANTASTIC 1995 NCAA Tournament. Against All-American/NBA Lottery Pick "Big Country" Reeves, Duncan had 8 blocks and 22 rebounds. This after grabbing 25 rebounds against Saint Louis the week before. But his monster game against a legitimate NBA center is why he was the center topic for all NBA scouts.

Let's not forget that he averaged 16.8 ppg, 12.5 bpg, and 4.2 bpg that year. He was also the Nation's Defensive player of the year in 1995, when he was a sophomore.

I can't take anything away from Joe Smith. Back then he was an animal. 20.8 ppg, 10.7 rpg, 2.9 blocks per game. Can't deny that. At times, he looked like Dennis Rodman with a great offensive game.

Joe Smith was also a 6'10", 220 lbs jumping jack, string bean who scored in a multitude of ways. Tim Duncan was a 6'10", 240 lbs. man who played his back to the basket, had phenomenal footwork, and dominated on the defensive end. And yes, they were making comparisons with Olajuwon back then.

Is it ashame to lose to a Final Four team in Oklahoma St. ? I don't think so. There is a reason they made the final four. They were a top 10 basketball team that year. When a dynamite Kansas team lost to a young, championship bound Arizona team in 1997, there is no shame in that. When the same Arizona team lost to an Andre Miller-led Utah team the following year, there is no shame in that. They lost to good teams. They didn't get upset by obviously inferior teams.

 

Wake Forest landed a #1 seed as #3 team in the nation. OSU was a #4 seed ranked #14 in the nation. Yes, it was embarrassing getting beaten by Bryant Reeves. And St. Louis gave them a scare, too.

Oklahoma St was the surprise of that Tourney, and Bryant Reeve's value increased the most, imo. I remembering him handling McDyess, Duncan, Camby in succession quite surprisingly.

Duncan was good, but you exaggerate what I remember. I don't know where you got the 22 and 25 boards thing, but Duncan is listed at a total of 43 rebounds in 3 games for 1995, so your rebound stats are already over that total and you're missing a game. <a href="http://www.wildcatworld.com/stats/ncaarec.htm">here</a>

I just don't remember that year as a lock for Duncan. He finished strong, but he was up against two yrs of dominance by Joe Smith on largely a one man team. Duncan didn't even make 3rd Team all-NCAA, and getting dispatched early as a #1 seed is not what you make it out to be. And wasn't he still listed at 6'10?

It was his junior yr where he was a lock for #1.