ESPN insider makes up a trade: Abdur-Rahim for Rice and E. Griffin

How could you forget Hakeem?!?

Well anyways. Yao Ming is not as good as Tim Duncan. Yes...we do have amazing Steve Francis, but they have a better team overall. And they still make trades to improve their team. They have gotten Hedo Turkoglu, Robert Horry, Anthony Carter, Devin Brown, Rasho Nesterovic...and Yao is not as good or dominant as Shaq. Francis is not as good or dominant as Kobe. Jordan was like the best player ever! And Pippen was quite good himself. We need a third star....just because the top 4 teams......own us!

Tim Duncan, Robert Horry, AND Malik Rose> Eddie Griffin and Mo Taylor
Hedo Turkoglu and Bruce Bowen > Rice and Adrian Griffin
Turkoglu and Bowen and Ginobili> Mobley and Piatkowski

Shaq > Yao
Malone > Griffin
Fox > AGriffin
Kobe > Mobley

Nowitzki > Yao
Jamison > Griffin
Finley > Mobley

Stojakovic > our small forwards

Garnett > Griffin
Sprewell > AGriffin
They also have Cassell and Sprewell and Wally.

If I were Houston, I would still do it. But if I was Atlanta....would I do it?!?

 

I hate to give up on Eddie prematurely, but the Rockets need to get to the playoffs, and he's not helping. SAR could help significantly. He's a good post player who rebounds. We don't have that at the 3 or 4. He's consistent, which can't always be said about Steve, Cuttino, or MoT. Plus, his contract expires in 2 years, so we're not stuck so bad if things don't pan out. I agree with some other guys about the overvaluing of Rice's expiring contract. I don't think we'll get many better offers for that contract. The alternative is to hold onto Rice's contract, let him hobble around all year waiting for his contract to expire, and the still be sitting ugly over the salary cap next summer with no chance to sign any big free agents. He's by no means a perfect fit for this team, but SAR definitely makes this team better.

 

I like this trade until I think about what it will really accomplish for us. Yes -- I'll agree that SAR will make us a lock for the play-offs...but then what?

Does it make us a lock for us to get out of the first round? I don't know. Right now, as is, I think we have a good shot at the playoffs already.

I would hate to see us make this trade and for the next few years make it into the playoffs but always get eliminated in the first couple rounds while watching Eddie flourish on another team...

 

I think the trade that the Rockets rejected before the trade deadline was EG, Rice and Cat for SAR and ??? Can't remember who's the second guy, some cap filler, maybe Mohammed.

 

A lineup of Yao-Taylor-Rahim-Mobley-Francis will not work in my opinion. You have 5 scorers on the floor, each of whom needs their touches. If you made this deal you almost have to make mobley a 6th man or trade him. And offensively the team is fine, but I really don't think Rahim fits with Yao. He isn't a catch and shoot player, which is what they need. Plus, I can't see somebody not complaining about a lack of touches if those 5 start. We would be trying our own whitsitt model of the sum of the parts > whole, when it should be the other way around.

And I haven't mentioned defense yet, as SAR is a poor defender, Taylor is decent, francis is horrific and ming solid at his young age. I don't think it helps Rahim that he has been covering pf's rather than Small Forwards for the last two years either, so there's a decent chance it'll take him time to adjust his lateral quickness. He also looks more bulked up since he last played SF so he may have lost some of that lateral mobility he used to have. But he has never been known as a good defender.

I understand Rice and Griffin won't bring us a perfect player, but I'd rather avoid Rahim if I could. He really doesn't seem like a good fit.

We don't need any huge player moves to get into the playoffs, and Rahim will not make us better than the spurs, lakers, mavs, kings, and wolves come playoff time, as we would sorely be lacking in experience.

As far as the position stuff in my previous post, I was trying to point out that I don't find him to be a good fit here at either the small forward or power forward position. Rahim is almost identical to Antawn Jamison, a tweener in his own right. And jamison would be a poor fit here as well.

To be honest, I'd rather use Rice to get a piece that fits like a banger or a SF who can shoot well from 3, and can play decent defense, rather than the biggest name player available who happens to be a questionable fit at best.

 

1- francis
2- mobley
3 - rahim
4 - cato
5 - ming

 

Ok, even though I'm on record as opposing a trade at this time; I have to admit that this trade sounds intriguing. The key would be to get everyone to mesh. The 8 man rotation would be Yao, SAR, MoT, Cat, Steve, Pike, AG, Cato. I would prefer to have Cat, Cato & MoT comming off the bench.

 

This is a trade, I feel, should happen. While I like EG as a player, I hear questions about his work ethic. That is VERY scary for a player so young. Plus, I would be happy if EG eventually becomes as good as SAR. So why not get the real deal.

The crap about him being on losing teams is just that crap! This guy is a player. He may not exactly want to be "the man", and for our team that is perfect. Not everyone wants to be "the guy", they don't want the pressure (I have heard the same thing about Sheed). Sometimes these guys flourish as a cog in the machine vs the engine itself. Plus, we have all seen what happens when a guy thinks he is the man when he shouldn't be - Mobely. I like Mobley- his grit, toughness, and heart you cannot question, but at times the guy should relax and take a backseat to SF and Yao.

 

That is what I was thinking and what I would expect if this trade were to happen.

 

Could you name such a player that would be available to us for Eddie and Rice's contract? There aren't many, and certainly none that I can think of.

And SAR may not be a good defender but neither is Glen, neither is Eddie. I'd like to see this trade go down, with SAR starting at the 4, and Mo as spark off the bench. Then sign SJax via free agency with the rest of the MLE and use the veterans exception on Mark Jackson.

PG - Francis/Jackson/Norris
SG - Mobes/Pike
SF - SJax/Griff/Boki
PF - SAR/Mo
C - Yao/Cato

This would definately make us a lock for the luxury tax, but it would also make us serious contenders. I seriously doubt this'll happen though - I really don't trust any of this ESPN Insider crap (even though I'm an insider subscriber).

 

IMO the truth is that if he were to reach full potential, E.G. would only get close to bringing what S.A.R. brings nightly. Eddie's only edge is in shot blocking, and I don't believe that alone (given that we still would have Yao Ming and Kelvin Cato) is enough to out balance his deficiencies in ball handling, post moves, court presence, and all around talent when compared to S.A.R.
Added to that is that the time it would take E.G. to develop to that level, given his current rate of progress, is time that the playoff starved Rockets do not have.

 

I think this trade has great potential to make us very tough, if we start...

Yao - 5
SAR - 4
AG - 3
Pike - 2
Steve - 1

This allows us to come off the bench with MoT and Mobes...a pretty potent second team w/Cato adding a defensive presence.

The starting 5 above works well as Pike becomes the spot up shooter that Yao can spot and AG our defensive specialist.

SAR is a great compliment to Yao as he can play effectively in the paint and let Yao work in and out.

I don't like giving up on EG yet either, but sometimes the risk is worth it. Plus I think it makes us a better "team"...don't u?

 

Why -- does anyone have an inkling about McDavid's prospective ownership 'style'?

And --

as for SAR, who should Rox prefer -- SAR or 'toine Walker?

 

People here are forgetting that SAR was a full time SF when he was with the Grizzlies.

However, it remains to be seen if he can defend ANYONE at that spot, and if he can truly be a more of a catch and shoot player.

Honestly, I'm beginning to find it unbelievably difficult to see the proposed team co-existing together.

I'd probably do a Rice and MoT for SAR and Nazr Mohammed deal though. Atlanta will be paying Reef 24M over the next 2 seasons and 'm not sure about Nazr, but I'm pretty sure he has 3 more years and around 15M. That's 39M. Let's remove 9M for Rice, so does Mo make more or less than 30M on the rest of his contract? I think he has 3 years and 8M per season, which is around 24M. Is it worth saving 6M while getting MoT, who is basically SAR without the rebounding? Nahh..

How about this one guys:

Rice, Griffin, Cato to Atlanta

SAR & Nazr Mohammed to Portland

Rasheed Wallace & (our choice of) McInnis or Patterson to Houston

Surely, we'd have to sign a backup C, but we're getting rid of all those contracts in exchange for one more year of Rasheed, which means we have more flexibility to sign a backup C. It can be anyone, since Rasheed can backup the C position a lot too.

Yao/FA signing/Rasheed/MoT
Rasheed/MoT
(Patterson)/Griffin/Boki/Pike
Mobley/Pike
Francis/(McInnis)/Moochie

We'd have to fill the roster though.

Portland would be gettnig a star for their star, and Atlanta would be making essentially the same trade as discussed at the beginning of this trade.

 

So if we get SAR and can consider moving someone like Cato or similar to the 4, we would need a backup 5.

So we could:

Trade Rice, Mobely, Taylor -To ATL for- SAR, Ratliff
or
Trade Rice, Moochie, Taylor -To ATL for- SAR, Mohammed
or
Trade Mobely, Taylor -To ATL for- SAR
and Moochie -To DET for- Rebracca (Hah!)
or
Trade Rice, Moochie, Taylor -To ATL for- SAR
and Mohammed(ATL) -To GS for - Foyle(HOU)
or
Trade Mobely, Taylor -To ATL for- SAR
and Griffin, Mohammed(ATL) -WAS for - Haywood(HOU), K.Brown(ATL), J.Jeffries (ATL)

This has been brought to you by ComeBackToReality.com

 

Mr. Gootan,

Your trades are interesting, but Cato at the 4????

 

Exactly. Those points listed above is exactly why we need a "3rd star" type player on this team. Many of the good teams in the West have 3 star type players. Having a 3rd player to be able to step up if Steve or Yao have an off night is absolutely huge. It is things like that that help teams win more games in the regular season.

We all like the idea of Yao playing with Mo Taylor because they BOTH are low post threats, add SAR into the mix and that's one more player. Additionally, Yao is the type of player that is going to find the open guy, you add in another offensive minded player in SAR and it makes this team that more deadly offensively!

Is SAR the ideal PF for this team? No. But he is an upgrade over Griffin at this point. I like Griffin but I just dont think this team can afford to wait on him. JVG will make sure this team plays good "team defense" and mask some of our man on man defensive deficiencies and on the offensive end we would have 4 player (Francis, Mobley, SAR, Yao) that have the ability to score 20 points or more a game. With those odds you are going to win a lot of ball games!

FYI, NBA.com lists SAR as 6'9" and 245lbs. Griffin is 6'10" and 232lbs. So while SAR might be an inch shorter (and that is debatable since Griffin seems to be closer to 6'9" than 6'11"), SAR is almost 15lbs heavier. I think SAR can play decent minutes at PF in the West.

 

You don't need a "3rd Star Player" if you have the MVP such as Duncan or Shaq. They equal 2 star players. They are that dominant. If Yao ever becomes that dominant then we need not worry.

However, if you don't have the MVP then you need 3 star players. You say that you don't need a third star player, but need someone to step up and be "consistant"? But that's what MAKES a star player! "Consistancy!" There are many players in the NBA that can put up 20 points on any given night. But it is the players that "consistantly" do it night in and night out that become all stars. If Cuttino was consistanly a 20ppg scorer and showed up every night he WOULD be an all star.

I like my chances of SAR scoring more consistantly in the low block than Mobley taking off balance shots from the perimeter.

Additionally, with Francis, Mobley, SAR and Yao, I like my chances that 3 of the 4 or at worst 2 of the 4 will be on their game night in and night out. Right now we are counting on Francis and Yao to shoulder a lot of the load on this team and they are not ready to carry that much load. They are not Kobe and Shaq just yet (if ever!).

 

Stockpiling talent is like stockpiling money in the bank. Not always the best investment, but always safe.