Not counting other players in the trade who tip the scale for Dallas ... AJ avg 20pt, 7 reb, %45 FG for his career. He played even better last year. NVA is a career/ playoff 15 pt, 7 ass, %40 FG man. Do u want Nash, Van Exel, Finley, Notwitski, Frentz or do u want Nash, Finley, AJ, Notwitski, Frentz? It is a tremendous upgrade in size and even talent. Does Dallas need a bruising PF? Hell no! Where would you put Dirk? He may not be the bruising PF but he is tall enough and he rebounds. You don't want to put him at SF. Smaller and quicker guy there would kill him or at least drain his energy on the defensive end. Dallas does need a tough center but you can't have everthing. People who dish this trade can only improve it if they can get Shaq to play for Dallas! How naive!
they did become better on defense you sound like 6 -1 van exel at sg could defend anyone pg nash 6-3 sg van exel 6-1 sf finley 6-7 pf dirk 7-0 or pg nash 6-3 sg finley 6-7 sf jamison 6-9 pf dirk 7-0 bigger lineup and no one out of position sure nick had some good games in the playoffs but the big 3 weren't that bad either nick 19,5 points nash 16,1 dirk 25,3 finley 18,3 i will miss him but i'm looking forward to see jamison in a mavs uni he will be the third top 10 pick from the 98 draft in dallas
that's why i think that dirk and antawn are the perfect match on offense dirk will play from the outside and antawn will attack the basket on defense they will switch i just hope that dirk will improve his defense this offseason a little bit but just getting rid of smallball could help the overall team defense
For someone who talks about heady basketball play and the importance of passing, you sure do like Jamison a good deal. Antwan is not exactly what I would call a "heady" basketball player.
Dallas had 3 true starters, 1 almost starter (Raef) and a big giant whole at the small forward spot. Well, in comparison to teams who are actually contending for anything. They now have 4 true starters and Raef. And unfortunately, Raef could start for most teams in the league so I'll give them credit for having 5 starters now. I couldn't take them seriously as a contender before, now I do. I think at lot depends upon who, if anyone, steps up to be their top bench player. But, my goodness, they've got a very solid team now. I'm not too worried about their defense. By not playing small ball, it will get better. But of course, the reality is that they won't win any championships until Dirk steps it up one more level. He's they guy that will bring home the bacon. The other guys are there to give him the opportunity. --Drof
It is arguable that Jamison and NVE are about even talentwise. Jamison is younger but has a longer contract. So they are pretty much a fair straight up swap. AJ and Popeye are just dumps. So Dallas basically gets Fortson, Welsch, and Mills for Eschmeyer. What a steal. Now they can put 4 big guns on the floor. (They thought LaFrenz was the 4th gun and NVE was a tagged-on in that trade. How wrong!) Whether Jamison is a go-to guy is not really important. Their main weapon is still Nash-Nowitzki. Jamison and Finley are there to make opponents pay when they concentrate on the main weapon. And they can make them pay big time. As the writer pointed out, there is an unselfish ethos in their core. Those big guns don't bicker about not getting enough shots. (Even Van Exel behaved so well there.) So it won't be a problem sharing the ball. Their biggest weakness, of course, is still there: Defense. But I still believe that if there's any team that has enough firepower to make playing defense a moot point, this is it. Last season's playoffs would have been very interesting if Nowitzki (and Webber) didn't get hurt. I'm not among those who dismiss the Mavs just because they are "too soft." I think they have as good a chance to get to the finals as all the other top teams in the West. Barring injuries, it's gonna be a VERY entertaining WC playoffs.
Fortson might be the most overrated player on this board. He's so damn good, that he can't seem to stay on a team for more than 1-2 years... 6 ft 7 PFs are pretty useless in the West, unless your name is Charles Barkley. 6 ft 9 SF/PF (Jamison) types are just as useless. Jamison does not add anything to the Mavs, other than 1 more scoring option. Since when was Dallas in need of a scoring option? Jamison is anything but a banger inside, and he has little to no inside presence. Brian Grant would have been a much better acquisition.
I like Antawn Jamison, too, but I can't help but think he's as good as gone. Maybe CD and Les have eyes for other players, now or this year. Maybe Brian Grant? Rasheed and the cap space he'll provide next year? Would anyone get in on the trade as the third team if Mooch and Cato got us Mills (expiring contract, and prize fighter extraordinaire) and Bradley (relatively cheaper backup center)?
You hit the nail on the head! Dirk is exposed playing perimeter defense but excels on the perimeter in the offense while Antawn is jut the opposite. IMO Dallas could be much better this year than last year. Their starting five just got a lot better plus they now have a legit bench with the additions of Fortson, Welsch and 1st round draft pick Josh Howard. Last year Dallas had 3 very good players in their starting five and tried to use spares LaFrentz and Bradley to finish out their starters. Much of the year because both Lafrentz and Bradley were so bad they had to play Dirk at the 4 and start Raja Bell at the 3. Now Dallas starting 5 could look like this: Nash Finley Dirk Jamison Fortson Dirk plays SF on offense and PF on defense. Jamison does just the opposite. Bench: Josh Howard Raja Bell Jeri Welsch Reaf Lefrentz Chis Mills Shawn Bradley Thats a lot of damn talent even compared to what they had last year.
Say what you want to about the guy but when he starts he is a double / double. His biggest problem has been staying healthy but when he is healthy he produces. In his second season 98-99 he averaged 11.6 rpg and 11 ppg in 28 min per game. 99-00 he only averaged 15 minutes a game but still put up almost 7 rpg and amost 8 ppg. 00-01 his first year in GW he was averaging 16.3 rpg and 16.7 ppg in 33.8 mpg before getting hurt. 01-02 in a full season he averaged 11.7 rpg and 11.2 ppg in 28.8 mpg Fortson is no scrub, he has just had bad luck. The guy is already the best post player the Mav's have.
Crash, You are RIGHT on the money bro...and then you toss in the former college player of the year who averages over 20PPG for his career and you have a steal. I can not believe the Rockets did not want to get in on this fire sale. DD
Stats mean nothing. Has Jamison won anything in the NBA? His "best" year is winning what, 35 games? Jamison hasn't done much of anything and will be as big of a bust in Dallas as Andre Miller was in Cleveland. Jamison lacks the passion to compete against the PFs like KG or Duncan. Someone please tell me what he adds to the Mavericks, that the Mavericks didn't already have. They needed a true inside presence. Still, Najera is the Mavs best post defender. Mavs are every bit as soft inside as they were in June.
1. Stats are an indicator of production. In Fortsons case it shows that the man can rebound. There is no denying that one simple fact. The Mavs are soft on the boards and until this trade they had no one that could go up and grab the tough rebound during crunch time. Fortson gives them this person either as a starter or off of the bench. 2. It's true that Jamison has not been to the play-offs. So should we apply your logic to our own Steve Francis? I guess we should trade Stevie now because he will obviously never contribute to a play-off team. What did NVE do with Denver? Nothing but make people think he was a head case. Presto he goes to a winning organization and becomes a great contributor. The same thing can happen in Jamisons case. 3. Jamison lacks passion? Says who? You? 4. Jamison has more back to the basket moves than anyone currently on the Mavs. He has the same type of quickness for a power forward that KT had and he is better and bigger. Jamison may not be considered a defensive dynomo but he has the athletic ability to go out and guard someone on the perimeter that Dirk lacks. Jamison is the perfect yin to Dirks yang. Two tweeners that compliment each other. Dirk a small forward on offense and a power forward on defense while Jamison is just the oppisite. 5. Najera is a great hustle player and very good to have on the team but he does not bring the size and rebounding that Fortson provides. At 6'9" and 260 Fortson is close to the same size as Elton Brand 6'8" and 265 and is a rebounding machine. Once again two things that the Mavs have seriously lacked the last few years. Fortson will not get pushed around like Najera does. 6. Jamison, Fortson and Mills automatically become Dallas best 3 post players. Bradley and Lafrentz both just plane suck and Najera is an undersized Power Forward that has great hustle but has proven inefective in the play-offs. 7. The Mavs also get a great young player in Jeri Welsch to sweeten the deal. This is a multi talented guy that can play point guard, shooting guard or small forward. Also none of these players are cornerstones. The Mavs already have their cornerstones in place Nash, Finley and Dirk. These players will come in and play a role. Only Jamison might have a role that is comparable to NVE's role with the team but he will no longer be looked upon as "The Man". Great deal for Dallas.
The Mavs got better by giving up players who were not contributing in the long run anyway. The Rocks - well, they got a new ugly logo and uniform. Darn !!! DD
<b>crash5179</b> You left Najera off that bench list and he is pretty much the sixth man, now that Nick is gone. Eddie is a crowd fav and more important to the Mav's success than most people realize. He does all of the dirty work and plays tough. Real tough.
What Dallas is trying to do is this: They are becoming better at what they already do best. Since they cannot address their real need - a center, this was the next best thing they could do. In the playoffs last year, toward the end of games their offense would bog down because there was no one who had a legit inside game that could get the hard points down low in the post. Jamison addresses that need somewhat. Time will tell. Something arno_ed said resonated with me. When you face the Mavs, there are now 4 legitimate scoring threats on the floor to defend. With the current composition of the Rockets roster, outside of Francis or Yao, there's really nobody that can create problems for the opposition in much the same way. That's one reason why I feel that they have a long way to go to reach contenders status in the West.
#1- Too bad there aren't any boards for Fortson to grab, when Dallas is allowing the other team to score layups at will. Fortson will not do anything to alleviate that. Also, Fortson and Jamison's rebound totals were vastly inflated by playing in GS. Neither guys are anywhere close to being a good post-up defender, something that Dallas still falls short in. #2- You SF theory really holds no weight with me, because I've been saying for a long time that SF will not amount to a winner. Good point about NVE though. #3- Any "power forward" who is afraid to bang inside on offense and defense by my defintion, "lacks passion". "Lacks passion" or "soft", take your pick because Jamison is both. #4- As with SF, I am probably the #1 detractor of KT. He has less value to me than a Japanese Yen. He does have more post-up moves than any current Maverick player, but is that saying much? Point is that Jamison spends more time facing up, than turned around with his back to the basket. #5- Fortson has never been known as defender. Decent rebounder, yes. As I said in #1, you have to stop a team from scoring before worrying about grabbing a rebound. Also, if Fortson were such an asset with his big body and all, why has he gone around more than Jenna Jameson? Fortson played in a grand total of 17 games and averaged 13 mins for a lottery team. If you seriously think he can be a defensive stopper playing in crunch time during the playoffs, then I have a nice beach house in Arizona to show you. #6- Again, if you think Mills and Fortson will be go-to guys down the stretch in games, you are really stretching it. Besides an expiring contract, Mills has really no value. You seem to be polishing two turds as much as you can. #7- I agree on Welsch. I don't know why GS added him to the trade. Unless they were THAT desperate to dump Jamison. If GS was so desperate to dump Jamison, I have to wonder how good Jamison really is...
1. How many times during the play-offs did the Mavs play good defense only to see the Blazers or the Kings or the Spurs get the offensive rebound and the second or third and sometimes fourth chance points. I cant count the number times I found myself wondering why one of the Mavs on the floor could not get a damn rebound. You can't argue that GS inflated Fortsons rebounding numbers since he rebounded just as well in Denver and Boston as he did in GW. 2. Pass. If you think Steve can not be a major contributor on a play-off team then I will just have to disagree with you. The Mavs will make the play-offs next year and Jamison will be a very good contributor. 3. Jamison will not play defense as a power forward. Dirk will be the power forward on defense when he and Jamison are on the floor together. 4. Jamison will give the Mavs another legit post scorer besides Dirk. The man can score plus he will not be asked to cary the load like he was in GW. 5. A big part of the Mavs defensive problems last year were allowing second chance points. Fortson is no worse a defender than what the Mavs already put on the court but he will prevent teams from getting second chance points as often. Big plus for Dallas. Fortson gives the Mavs a second player that can grab 10+ rebounds a game and one player that can grab the tough rebound when the game is on the line. 6. Who in there right mind would give the ball to Mills or Fortson with the game on the line but you would likely see Fortson on the floor if you need a rebound. Who else would the Mavs trot out there Lafrentz or Bradley? That is just laughable.
