I wonder what Doc Rock......errr, Jim Boylen is thinking right about now? Looks like he may have hitched his wagon to a losing franchise.
well, since my point was that the trade should never have happened, then I still don't get what Fortson has to do with making this a better trade for GSW. I note your smiley face when making this comment. I know Swopa is smarter than that!! don't get me wrong...I have always really liked Van Exel....but, dude...I like Antawn Jamison, too. Trading Jamison seems like something where GSW could have called all the shots....getting Nick back doesn't seem like a trade from someone who thinks they are in control.
HeyP think the GSW coach has a major beef with Fortson so trading him, his attitude and salary was really impt to them. i sort of agree with you however that if the theory was to remove Jamison to give Dunleavy time and space to play then why add a shooter addict like NVE, the counter of that however is though they don't really have a legitimate PG, claxton is nice but his outside came to is crap and they could sag off him big time. And don't forget Nick was a gun for the Mavs and his assist numbers have been much better in all other years/teams, he could certainly help Dun Jr and Murphy score.
like I told Swopa...don't get me wrong,,,,I've always liked NVE. I just don't buy the clear out Jamison for Dunleavy thing as a good trade when you get NVE in return. that's all.
i completely understand your argument, my gut feeling is Jamison doesn't pass and NVE can plus maybe the plan it to move NVE to a contender later
Last season, when the big three were down(that happened more than once), NVE took it over. Would you expect Jamison to be the man, when Nash/Dirk/Fin can't find the basket? I think Najera is a better starting 4 than Jamsion, for the Mavs only. GSW wanna dump contract? I still don't get it. Puting AJ/Fortson/Welsh/Mills on the trading block, and you think NVE/craps are the best offer you can get?
Dunleavy the future? this cat went to EBC last week and got schooled by bunch of second-tier street ballers.
I can't believe that Les can not beat the deal, and still keep SF & YM. Adding Jamison to the roster would be huge...he rebounds and would be a nice compliment to Yao at the 3 or 4. DD
Mobley/Rice/Nachbar for Jamison/Fortson works salary wise. We then sign Mark Jackson & slide Francis over to the 2. They get a solid 2/3 in Mobley, a promising prospect in Nachbar, & $9+ million in cap relief next year.
What I don't get is how Dallas can afford this. Does anyone have a complete list of salaries for the Mavs in the upcoming year? I'm imagining that along with Jamison's MAX contract, they're going to be shelling out big bucks to Nowitzki, Finley, Nash, and LaFrentz, plus all the other random contracts Cuban has absorbed in his trades (Fortson, Mills, ... is Tariq Abdul-Wahad still also on the team, sitting on the bench setting fire to big piles of cash?).
This is not a great trade for the Mavs. Sure, Jamison is younger than NVE and he does fill out some need for the Mavs (at least being a 'tweener means you can play two positions). This trade may help the Mavs in the regular season but they already had the best record in the league last year. NVE was the heart and soul of the Mavs in the playoffs. Yes, the Mavs needed to do something after seeing themselves nearly dropped to #5 in the West after last month's moves. But I can't imagine the Lakers, Spurs, or Kings shaking in their pants right now. But how can you have a bad trade when it involves the Warriors. I used to live in Oakland so I have quite a few friends who are Warriors FAITHFUL (all caps because this maybe the sorriest franchise in all sports). About two weeks ago, I was listening to an interview on KNBR with Gilbert Arenas. He claims that he and St. Jean had a deal worked out where he would get a big money contract next year. But, he didn't sign because the owner, Chris Cohan, never said a word nor shook his hand during the meeting. At first, I thought Arenas was full of baloney, but if this move goes down, all I can say is "you should've shaken his hand Chris." So that's my little rant. For any Warrior fans out there, I feel for ya! But at least bad ownership seems to be an epidemic in Oakland: A letter to the San Francisco Chronicle
The good thing for the Mavs is that they gained trade flexibility by selling an old dog(less trade value) for an new puppy. They had a net gain in talent and they can afford trading for a tough banger inside later without hurting much of their offense when needed. If AJ turns out playing well for the Mavs, then it's a win win situation.
I think he most likely stays. If the Warriors are really interested in dumping salaries, then they trade both Van Exel and Dampier for expiring contracts and go for a full rebuild. But I don't think they have the stomach for that. for heypartner: I checked out Bob McAdoo's NBA.com bio -- turns out he helped the Lakers win two titles, as their leading bench scorer in the playoffs for four straight years. Oh, and the Celtics apparently gave him away for nothing.
You don't trade your best player to unload salary. Its throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Don't trade big for small, don't trade youth for age... the Warriors broke every common sense rule in this.
Does Dallas not understand that they need a tough PF? Jamison is a rich man's Juwan Howard... Same old Mavs. Some of you guys act like Jamison is a star player. Good move by GS.
the mavs, got a great playeer in jamison, i really like his game, and they got a banger in Fortson, if he stays healthy he is a great rebounding player and a tough player. the mavs got the best on this deal, NVE was playing behind Nash, so they traded a sub and some scrubs, for a starting forward, and a banger, i like this deal for them.
This is Dallas pounding a square peg into a round hole (no Kobe jokes please) and has now guaranteed that they will not make the western conf finals, much less the NBA finals, for the next 3-5 years. Jamison is fine for the regular season. His big problem is that he can't prevail in playoff matchups. He's not dominant enough to warrant having the ball over Novitski. The biggest problem? He does not have a defined, go-to, low post move. When it's crunch time and the Mavs need a bucket, he adds nothing. It will still be the Novitski and Nash pick and roll. In this sense, NVE is a superior player to Jamison. NVE has made a career out of taking and making big shots. When it's crunch time and the Mavs need a big stop? Jamison adds nothing. He is not the tough bruiser defender that Dallas sorely needs. My analysis of the deal: Dallas - big, huge mistake. Cuban caved to the pressure of doing something at the expense of doing the right thing. This is subtraction by addition in the greatest sense of the phrase. GSW: if the fans are intelligent enough to understand the cap benefits of dumping Fortson and Jamison . . . good trade. NVE will probably begin to flake with the losing and he'll start to play stupid again. If, and that's a big if, GSW are smart, they'll deal NVE to a contender for young talent, expiring contract, draft pick or a combo of the two. Let's see - SA sure could use a fearless backup/starter PG like NVE. The Clippers don't like to spend money but sure could use a PG. (Or us? Cato for NVE anyone? Taylor for NVE? Speaking of expiring contracts, Rice for NVE? I don't know the terms of NVE's contract, but it's probably ridiculous. I'd trade Taylor's crap contract, if it's close to equal, not Cato.)
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...l/mavs/stories/081803dnspomavslede.a7389.html Mavericks might not be done dealing yet Eight-player swap with Warriors could end up a three-way trade 01:32 AM CDT on Monday, August 18, 2003 By CHUCK CARLTON / The Dallas Morning News On Friday, the Mavericks agreed to an eight-player trade with the Golden State Warriors that brought high-scoring Antawn Jamison to Dallas. On Monday, the trade should finally become official. The NBA is expected to give its approval following an early-afternoon conference call. But the Mavericks might have more to announce Monday. Donnie Nelson, the Mavericks' president of basketball operations, said his cell phone "exploded" on Saturday about the time news leaked about the impending deal. "We're getting a lot of calls from teams that are interested in doing business," Nelson said, estimating that he's spoken to as many as 20 teams this weekend. The Mavericks are scheduled to acquire Jamison, Danny Forston, Jiri Welsch and Chris Mills from Golden State for Nick Van Exel, Avery Johnson, Evan Eschmeyer and Popeye Jones. Team officials can't comment about the trade until it's completed. Each of the incoming players is attractive, to the Mavericks and other teams, although Mills is the most likely candidate to be on the move, again. He has one year remaining at $6 million in his contract, a cap-friendly number for teams planning a year ahead. He could be a bargaining chip that might be flipped for players who could provide inside help, although the top big men are long gone from the board. The eight-player deal also erased any possibility of the Mavericks signing free-agent center Vladimir Stepania. Timing is important, too. If the Mavericks don't deal one of the new additions Monday, packaging it as a three-team deal, they must wait two months to package any of the four with a player off their current roster in a deal. Fortson, after playing only 17 games last season, might have value to other teams as well. He averaged a double-double (points and rebounds) in 2001-02 before losing his power forward spot to rookie Troy Murphy last season. The Mavericks would probably be far less likely to entertain offers for Jamison, a career 20.2 point a game scorer and only 27. Jamison was the focus of the trade from the Mavericks' perspective. At 6-9, he's capable of hitting the 20-foot jumper or scoring inside with a variety of moves. He strengthens the small forward spot and allows Michael Finley to play shooting guard, filling a hole that's been a concern almost as nagging as the lack of an inside presence. Welsch is only 23 and a former first-round draft pick. At 6-7, he can play as many as three positions and could even be a point forward in coach Don Nelson's offense.
how do you know Jamison can't play good in the play offs, he has never played a single game in the play offs. I do not think jamison came to dallas to become the number one option. teams playing dallas will have to look at 4 players to defend. that will be hard. defending nowitzki one oon one is inpossible, and if team dubble team who wil they have to leave open? the only complain you can have about this trade is that dallas did not become better on defense, but i think fortson is a good adition.
