Doc's a legit great coach with experience who gets respect from the star players in this league. Y'all are sleeping on the value he brings to teams. He's going to be in the Hall someday.
Yes. I don't judge any coach on this past season. The world is a mess and nothing was normal. This was by far his worst season as Clippers head coach. I don't discredit that the team fell apart. He's been to the Finals twice as a coach. That's more than any coach the Rockets have had since Rudy T. He's respected throughout the league by players. That's more than any coach we've had in Harden's career. MDA was being trashed by half his old guys for saying he doesn't care about practice. MDA was damaged goods when we got him and he performed incredibly well. Doc is the #1 candidate on the market now. If the Rockets don't get him the 76ers or Pelicans will. No one was hiring MDA if we didn't. What did KG and Paul Pierce do in Brooklyn with Deron Williams? How many championships has Rondo won without Doc? Ray Allen is the greatest shooter of all time and he knew to join LeBron to get another one but he was not a star at that point. Rondo knew to join LeBron too. Every team that wins the championship has a great roster. Guess what? When he wins in Houston maybe other teams can say he couldn't win without James Harden and Russell Westbrook.
Even without KG, Doc still had THREE all stars on Celts. And those Cavs were among Lebron's least talented teams. And Lebron was still a pup then, he did not have same clout with refs or from opposing players back then. And I think you all are severely underestimating that Magic team. Dwight was in his prime and was dominant offensively as well as defensively. SVG had his best season as HC ripping off the championship Rockets 4 out system with Dwight in pivot and surrounded by shooters.
The bloodlust for slander (primarily due to social media, IMO) is just out of control. First off, as you said, he's coached 21 years. He has the seventh-most playoff victories in NBA history. When your sample size is that big, there's going to be some weird years in there. Second, I still don't get (other than for slander purposes) why the 3-1 stuff is that big of a deal. Would it be better if they had just gone out in five games, as the 2020 Rockets did? A loss is a loss, it just means the team wasn't good enough and they have to try to get better. I feel the same way about people who blow a gasket every time the Rockets lose a game after having a 15-point lead. It happens. Somewhere along the way, jokes for slander got blended with serious analysis. It's weird. It's especially weird to me, on a Rockets forum, to see folks pointing to 2015 as if it's evidence of some catastrophic Rivers blunder. The Rockets had the same record as the Clippers over 82 games and earned HCA. James Harden was the Players' MVP, and he was great in Game 5 and Game 7. Josh and Corey made some improbable shots late in Game 6 to keep them alive. I prefer to think of it more for what the Rockets did right — and based on the body of evidence from the season as a whole, those were two fairly even teams. A narrow win by the home team in Game 7 feels about right. All that said, I don't think he's the best coach in the league. He's not Pop or Spo. There are legitimate criticisms. But for the vast majority of coaches, it's situational. Frank Vogel was a fall guy in Orlando and Indiana, now everyone loves him. There are entirely too many fans who want shiny new toys, because it's easier to make the argument that they "could" be the next Spo, since they haven't had previous failures that could be pinned on them. It's the same reason why so many people hated the D'Antoni hire in May 2016, and yet two years later, he was a hamstring away from winning it all. I get the desire for upside, and certainly it's a big part of the Rockets as an organization. But as with anything, you can take it to extremes. Just ask the Astros of the Chris Carter years.
I agree with you, that Magic team was terrific. Dwight was a monster. That's why I don't see a big problem with the Celtics (without Garnett) losing to them in seven games.
MDA and Doc Rivers both did a fine job last season with the circumstances. I think you're interpreting that I had a part in the decision to move on? I think MDA and Doc both will be successful in their next job. Sometimes a voice gets stale in a locker room and it's best to move on. Carlisle was fired by the Pacers and now he's considered a top coach of all time.
It's obvious that we're not going to change each other's minds about Doc and I'm fine with that. You don't have to believe a word I've said and I dont't have to do the same. However, when I look at the lack of adjustments that Rivers made in the playoffs it sets off alarms that we might want to look in another direction. IMO, a coach that refuses to make adjustments in the playoffs is a coach that's either incompetent or is relying on the talent of his roster to win at the end of the day.
I have continuously said this. The team would have to hire top assistants in this case. Doc is a long term play . He changes the culture, but yes, his adjustments need work, the results speak for themselves. I want Alvin Gentry or Chris Finch on Offense and Rex Kalamian on Defense. I want Doc Rivers as a sign that Tilman has a plan to allow others to run this team and not his own family. I'm worried about the future of this franchise.
What is doc right now in the NBA as head coach rankings? Top 5 Top 10 If he’s either we need to get him on board.
Not saying he is career loser, just that it is the epitome of hypocrisy to get rid of winning coach like MDA because he could not get Rockets to Finals in 4 years for a coach who could not get Clips to Finals in 7 years. In half the time, MDA took Rockets to WCF (Rockets even went to WCF with McHale), Doc did not reach even 1. And all the slings and arrows shot at MDA are same or worse for Doc. No adjustments, bad rotations, bad at X's and O's, not enough timeouts, age, too stubborn, players lost faith, decision making, etc. And Doc Clips teams were much more stacked, starting 5 as well as bench, better funded, better owner, more talented assistant coaches and Doc was even making all trades and FO decisions for most of his tenure. Nothing personal against Doc, but his hire would not give me hope. But I worried about MDA hire too so what do I know?
Didn't Rivers have Lue on his bench as an assistant and isn't Lue, apparently, very good at making in game adjustments?
Underachiever, does less with more. https://hoopshype.com/2020/09/29/doc-rivers-clippers-firing/ “Doc underachieved every year in L.A. but one (last year),” one Eastern Conference executive told HoopsHype. “This needed to happen so they could hopefully reach their potential. They need to win big next year with Kawhi Leonard and Paul George having player options. Lots of pressure there next year. Not many coaches out there would be able to handle that.” https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/09/more-details-on-doc-rivers-departure-from-clippers.html Rivers’ view, per Buha, was that the Clippers’ roster had some flaws and that he had tried the make the best of a less-than-ideal situation. The franchise, meanwhile, viewed the second-round collapse as “inexcusable” and considered Rivers culpable for many of the club’s shortcomings despite the unfavorable and unusual circumstances dictated by the coronavirus pandemic and the Orlando bubble. Rivers’ insistence on sticking with a struggling Montrezl Harrell over Ivica Zubac at key moments in the postseason and his reluctance to develop or empower young players during his Clippers tenure were among the factors the team considered when it made its change, according to Buha. Harrell’s energy and effort on the defensive end of the court was questioned both inside and outside the locker room, Buha adds. There was a sense that the Clippers played with a “distinct lack of joy and on-court chemistry” this season and that Rivers had a hard time balancing his treatment of new stars Kawhi Leonard and Paul George with that of Clips veterans like Harrell, Lou Williams, and Patrick Beverley, Buha writes. The perception of preferential treatment for Leonard and George was an ongoing issue for multiple Clippers players all year. The decision to part ways with Rivers was ultimately Ballmer’s, but the Clippers owner called a few key players, including Leonard and George – to get their opinions, sources told Ramona Shelburne and Ohm Youngmisuk of ESPN. None of the feedback Ballmer received changed his mind about the need for a change, and Rivers didn’t feel comfortable staying with the team without Ballmer’s full support, per ESPN’s duo. The Clippers didn’t have a specific replacement in mind when they decided to part with Rivers, and there’s an expectation that the search for a new coach could take several weeks, according to Buha, who says there’s no clear-cut top candidate yet.
Lue will be hired within a week. He's like the talented version of Bickerstaff. Always sitting right there to slide into the throne. Probably whispering to players about Doc.
I've got to disagree with you here, Ben. Blowing a 3-1 lead in the playoffs is a pretty big deal. A great coach should still be able to get a weaker playoff team to beat a better one 1 out of 3 games, especially when everything is riding on it. Doing it once early in his coaching career is one thing, but these last two times with the Clippers, he had the personnel. You can't tell me that first the Rockets, then the Nuggets, were clearly superior teams to the Clipper teams they beat. And of course, blowing those leads isn't ALL on the coach, but I'd argue that not being able to sufficiently prepare and coach your team to at least 1 win in 3 games is a critical component. Nobody's saying Doc is a terrible coach, but he's also not the great coach some are making him out to be. He's coached some truly loaded teams over the years and has a single title to show for it.
I'm bringing up Lue because of what you stated about surrounding Rivers with good assistants. If it's true that Lue is great at in game adjustments then either Rivers was tone deaf or outright dismissed Lue's possible input (leading me to believe that it doesn't matter who his assistants are) or Lue isn't that good with adjustments.
I'm excited to see Lue with a Lebron-less team. Maybe he is a genius and LeBron took his shine. I underrated Spo because of Bron. edit: Remember when Doc stood up for Morey when LeBron told him to shut up and gm? https://clutchpoints.com/clippers-news-doc-rivers-speaks-out-on-daryl-morey-hong-kong-tweet/
Back to my question though: if Rivers had a very good in game adjustment mind in Lue as an assistant, why was there a clear lack of adjustments against Denver? The answer to that, imo, says a lot about either Lue or Rivers, both of whom are unfortunately top candidates for Houston.
