YM verses Amare Stoudemire

should have put this in the game thread.......
UP ABOVE...SUNS-vs-ROCKS GAME

 

<i>Let's hope that SF and CM don't shut YM out like they did last night. </i>

Hmm...so our guards shut out Yao last night? Funny, I thought it was more a factor that the Celtics were double and triple teaming Yao all night.

 

If Yao is double or tripple teamed,
it's our guards responsiblity to hit
their open shots.

You know that Yao will find them.

 

This is what Dr. Jack got to say in today's espn chat. Yao needs to play better to get back this voter.

Ryo (Chicago): Do you see Yao and Amare sharing the Rookie of the Year award? Amare has shown that he's one of the best to come out from the high school, and Yao is on his verge to become a potential threat than being another Rik Smits or the tall players like him who played in the game.

Dr. Jack Ramsay: Yao will exceed what Rik Smits accomplished in the NBA, but for this season, Stoud should be ROY.

 

Your argument is very weak here. Duncan, Shaq etc got double triple teamed every night. It didn't prevent their teammates getting them the ball and them getting touches, did it? I am not saying that Yao is as good as them physcially but isn't he supposed to have better teammates?

 

<i>Your argument is very weak here. Duncan, Shaq etc got double triple teamed every night. It didn't prevent their teammates getting them the ball and them getting touches, did it? I am not saying that Yao is as good as them physcially but isn't he supposed to have better teammates?</i>

No, teams do not usually play a collapsing zone with two or three player surrounding Shaq or Duncan before they even get the ball. Did you see the game? This wasn't your normal case where a defense will double the post player after they get the ball. Boston had a guy in front of Yao and a guy behind him the entire game, regardless of if he had the ball or not.

Boston wasn't going to let Yao beat them. While they were successful in slowing down Yao, they gave up wide open mid-range shots to the other Rockets. The Rockets did the correct thing in taking what the defense was giving them. Trying to force the ball into Yao would have been a mistake. If the Rockets continue to burn teams for leaving our perimeter guys open for midrange shots, then teams will stop playing a mini-zone around Yao. It’s a great situation, if you play Yao straight up, then he can kill you inside, but if you double and triple him, then our perimeter guys will burn you.

Here’s Rudy’s quote from the Chronicle:

"They completely committed to Yao," Tomjanovich said. "They sent a guy in front, a guy in back, and we did a great job swinging the ball to open guys and got some really good shots."

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/sports/1734853


Another Rudy quote:

"(The Celtics) completely committed to Yao, sending a guy in front and a guy in back of him," coach Rudy Tomjanovich said of the Rockets' throwback performance. "We were having a hard time just getting it in because ... nobody's ever done that with him."

Steve Francis quote:

"Yao's been consistent with the way he's been playing," Francis said. "That's helped everybody. They were doubling him, tripling him. That opened up a lot of things."


Yao Quote:

That's something I should do," Yao said. "In this kind of situation, my best use is to suck in the defense and get open shots for my teammates

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/sports/bk/bkn/1735031

Yao's own words are the best explanation. We did the correct thing last night and took the wide open shots instead of trying to force the ball into a triple team.

 

If Yao can help Rox beating up the Suns in regualr season or playoff games, I don't really care if Amare wins the ROY award.
I don't think Yao cares about it much either.

 

Yao Ming need to take this game personal, considering the sun's bench players mocking at Ming last time when he lost his balance, amare was one of them. Ming need to take it to him right way, show some attitude he expressed in the Atalanta game.

 

Amare still getting all the hype on nba fastbreak. not one of the 3 schmucks on that program will take yao's side. they rave about Amare's dunks and athleticism, and how he's helped phoenix. no one ever mentions how the rockets were much worse than phoenix last year, and Yao's addition has helped us to a pretty good record thus far. Also, no one mentions that yao changes the opponents gameplan completely, while teams have not done this for amare yet.

 

Just wait til tomorrow. They'll start hyping Yao from now until Friday. Theyre pumping the LA game big time.

Whatever gets them ratings.

 

I know that. I've watched the game. But I don't watch many Lakers and Spurs games so I don't know how they are able to beat this kind of zone but we are not. Shaq/Duncan should have commanded more respect from opposing defense than Yao. I don't believe that they haven't faced this type of defense yet. If that's really the case, we got to play this "Boston defense" against Shaq on Friday denying him the ball seeing they have much worse perimeter players than us.

 

You said it. Yao is a team player. Plus, he's got enough.
ROY is not that important to an all star, right?

 

as great as amare has played thus far yao's stats are better and he's way way more consistent. it's not even that close of a race.

amare is the hot talk now which is fine but yao is easily the front-runner.

whoever is saying that the guards hogged the ball couldn't have possibly watched that game. shaq, duncan, hakeem, etc. getting double and triple teamed has absolutey nothing to do with yao ming. he's a rookie whose never seen that kind of defense playing on a team whose never had to feed a post player in that situation. i'm sure over time rudy will have 5 or 6 strategies to force the ball in but as of yesterday the rocket's played it smart by swinging it around and hitting the jumper. yao created those by being the center of boston's defensive attack. he changed the game as equally as getting 30 points.

 

I would disagree. Over the past 10 games, Amare has played really, really well.

At this pace, he'll pass Yao in almost every category by year's end. The difference between Yao and Amare is teams caught on to Yao's abilities early and have made adjustments to stop him.

People still do not double team Stoudemire or box him out as the majority of his baskets are near the basket. That does wonders for his stats which everyone looks at in conjunction with those awesome dunks.

Right now the momentum is definitely leaning towards Stoudemire.

 

i think amare might win ROY over yao just because of the fact that amare is a lot stronger and can compete better than yao can at this point in his career. amare really is like a young kemp....great highlight reel, but may not ever be able to lead a team like a duncan, since he lacks shooting, or like a shaq, since he lacks the dominating size and passing. ming will be better in the long run because ming can develop the strength that he lacks, but it will be a hell of a lot hard for amare to develop the court awareness, passing, and shooting touch that yao already has.

 

If he is the team owner, who he is going pick as a draft? Yao or Amare? He has no second thought. But they have to play politics in their show.

 

Part of it is that I don't think Shaq or Duncan face that kind of defense. Honestly, I have never seen a team defend a big man in the post like the Celtics did last night. Another part of it is that Shaq and Duncan are better at establishing post position. Yao too easily allows himself to be fronted and doesn't fight for the spot.

Aelliot is right. The Rockets would have been very hardpressed to get Ming the ball last night. They tried for a while (a little too long, in my opinion), and it didn't work. It wasn't because our guards aren't good at post entry passes (although they could use improvement)...it was the Celtics defense. They were dead set and determined to not let Ming beat them last night...so our guards did.

Personally, I just hope other teams don't follow the Celtics example, because I don't have enough confidence in our guards for us to consistently beat that kind of defense.

 

Jan. 14, 2003, 10:48PM

Rookies wise beyond years
Yao, Stoudemire upend expectations, wow audiences in NBA

By JONATHAN FEIGEN
Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle


There's something intangible there, something as undeniable as it is indefinable. Even at a glance, it shows.

The Rockets and Suns see it, know how special it is and for all the excitement about the other's spectacular rookie, find perhaps the real miracle, if they can believe it, that a phenomenon so rare could have happened simultaneously.

In a league filled with physical marvels, Yao Ming and Amare Stoudemire have created did-you-see-that wonder, then have brought even more of it.

When they share a court tonight at Compaq Center -- with so much else swirling around the Rockets anxiously pointing to Friday's first meeting of Yao and Shaquille O'Neal -- perhaps only the Suns and Rockets will really be able to understand and share how their rookies have changed their teams.

There's something captivating that goes beyond soft hands or hard slams, beyond Stoudemire's swagger or Yao's vision.

"He has a star's presence about him," Suns president Bryan Colangelo said of Stoudemire, and just as easily could have said -- as so many have -- about Yao. "That's not something you can just create. And it's hard to fake."

It's impossible to miss. After the initial leaps to misguided conclusions, there has been an understanding of Yao's rare talents. The incredible attention that Yao has received -- building to a peak for the Don King-like production of a showdown with O'Neal and the Lakers -- has earned Yao that sort of acclaim. He will likely start in the All-Star game. He has met presidents and shared space with Michael Jordan in Sports Illustrated and Shania Twain in People.

"Sometimes when I'm at home," he said of the unrelenting attention, "I have to check and see if the door is locked."

The Suns have found appreciation for Stoudemire relatively lacking. But finding no other difference in what their rookie has done for them, they have taken up the cause, even offering a direct comparison.

"With Amare playing like an All-Star, it's hard to beat us," said Stephon Marbury, the Suns' answer to the Rockets' Steve Francis. "If Yao Ming is going to make the All-Star game, (Stoudemire) for sure should make it. That's not even close."

Stoudemire has numbers similar to Yao's: 12.5 points and 9.1 rebounds per game. Yao has averaged 12.9 points and 8.9 rebounds. But neither can be measured by statistics alone.

The Rockets are the league's most-improved team so far, with the Suns the third-most improved. There are other factors, most obviously Francis' improved health. But if the changes began with the team's records, they have spread to the way the Rockets and Suns think of themselves.

"They're 24-14," Mobley said before the Suns played at the Spurs on Tuesday. "It's not because of the rest of them. If Yao wasn't here, we know where we would be right now. Stoudemire is a big-time presence down low. To go to the playoffs (and) to be a good team, you have to have good big men. Your guards can only take you so far.

"If you have guys like Stephon Marbury and ... Shawn Marion, guys like Steve and myself, it makes it easy for us now. We were doing it with double and triple-teams. Now it's single coverage because we have Stoudemire and Yao Ming down low."

Shaq versus Yao is bringing a media rush, including national television coverage to Houston, a sellout to Compaq Center and a new round of obsessive attention to Yao. But Stoudemire-Yao has the feel of a Bird-Magic showdown for this generation.

Removing the college championship showdown of Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, which seems fitting for this era, the straight-from-high school Florida forward and the center from Shanghai, China, have shown themselves to be the rarest kind of rookies. As much as Rockets coach Rudy Tomjanovich and Suns coach Frank Johnson try to temper expectations, including their own, there are times they cannot deny the obvious.

A week after Johnson said it was too soon to consider Stoudemire All-Star material, he gave in.

"You know what? He might be an All Star," Johnson said. "I'm going to say it. What the hell."

But the real excitement, he said, comes when he considers what his 20-year-old prodigy can do with any experience.

"Oh my gosh!" he said. "Once he learns how to pass out of double teams, then gets back in position to score -- oh my God! Everything now is done instinctively. And it's amazing."

Stoudemire, taken with the ninth pick of the draft, has already been called the greatest draft choice in franchise history with a chance to become its best player ever. As with 22-year-old Yao and the Rockets, Stoudemire cannot be considered the Suns best current player. But as with the Rockets, when the Suns considered possibilities, and when Stoudemire offers glimpses, he changes games and attitudes.

"What I love about sports, the interaction, the chemistry," Tomjanovich said. "The different people, different ideas, people from different backgrounds, nationalities, ideas, and you come together. It's like when you're a kid, the new guy coming to your school adds excitement to the mix.

"He's added so much energy, he's so aggressive. ... His plays are more than one play. On the stat sheet, it goes down as an offensive rebound or a dunk. For your team it's worth much more. Emotionally, it just pumps you up.

"He's a little bit of Shawn Kemp when he came in, the aggressiveness, the fire. He can really leap. He's so strong. I think he has super confidence in himself. When you rebound and you do those things, you have to believe you're the guy who can get that ball. He thinks he can get every one."

In a sense, for all their differences, Yao and Stoudemire share that confidence. Though they rarely say it, and don't have to, they made their unusual leaps to the NBA because of faith in their outsized talent. More than a few jump hooks or rebounds, that seems the contribution that will really be on display and that their teammates celebrate. It is a quality that rubs off.

"It lifts a team to have a young player everybody is speaking highly about," Rockets forward Eddie Griffin said. "It helps your team out for your whole future.

"Marbury is going to say that because he sees that every day, just like we think Yao is the best player to come around."