From the Chron: Bush works on education plan AUSTIN (AP) -- President-elect Bush is readying an education package that would aggressively test students and cut federal funds for schools that fail to measure up. Aides say that despite significant opposition in Congress, he will not abandon a school voucher plan. As he tries to wrap up his Cabinet selections, Bush also is weighing how to present his education proposals to Congress. He has said improving public schools is his No. 1 priority, and lawmakers are certain to see his proposals just after he takes office Jan. 20. Key elements of the plan include flexibility for states and local districts in their education programs, and increased student testing. The most politically sensitive component of Bush's proposal is his plan to strip federal funds from the worst-performing schools and make them available to parents for private education, tutoring or "whatever offers hope," as he put it. Using public money to allow students to go to private schools is commonly known as voucher programs, and it is the most divisive issue in Bush's plan, one sure to spark a debate in Congress. Proponents call it school choice. Given the disputed presidential election and the slender advantage Republicans hold on Capitol Hill, Bush cannot force his programs through Congress. Nevertheless, advisers say he will stick with some form of his campaign proposal to allow parents with kids in chronically ailing schools to spend federal education funds as they choose. "School choice is one of the strongest ways we have to educate our children," said Ari Fleischer, spokesman for Bush's transition effort. Bush "believes in school choice and he is going to work hard to enact school choice." Fleischer disputed a report in today's Washington Post that Bush is likely to drop the voucher proposal because too many members of Congress oppose it. He said the proposal is "part and parcel of what he believes in." A top adviser, speaking on condition of anonymity, added that Bush might be open to discussing a mix of private and public school choice. He noted that Sen. Joe Lieberman, D-Conn., has favored public school choice. Vice President-elect Dick Cheney met with Lieberman, his rival during the presidential campaign, last month to talk about education, among other things. The government currently spends $7.7 billion on Title I programs to help educate poor children. Under Bush's plan, every school getting the Title I money would be required to test its impoverished students on basic academics each year. A warning would be issued to schools that fail to make progress toward state standards. After three years of no progress, a failing school's Title I money would be matched with other federal education money and turned over to the state, which would set up an education account -- about $1,500 a year -- for each affected student. The parents could choose how to spend the money. Bush last week selected Houston schools chief Rod Paige as education secretary. Paige supports voucher programs. I don't know about any of you guys, but has anyone here bothered to price private schooling? First off, even if $1500 managed to pay for a full year of private schooling, which in most cases it won't which severely limits these supposed choices, how in the hell are poor people supposed to afford uniforms (most private institutions require them at cost to the parents), books (the private schools I went to ALWAYS charged for books and bought them back at a SEVERELY reduced rate at the end of school) and transportation? Remember that most private schools don't provide buses and many poor people don't have cars or have serious transportation problems considering the fact that most private schools that are affordable aren't anywhere near impoverished areas of cities. The problem here is that you are stripping schools in impoverished areas where they need the help the most. Schools that provide kids with computers, good teachers, a higher student-counselor ratio and other benefits almost always have higher testing scores and better graduation rates. Stripping poor schools of funding essentially REMOVES choice from the poorest parents who cannot afford schools that cost more than $1500 per year because they then become stuck with a completely crappy school that has little or no funding. This is a TERRIBLE idea. In theory, I don't have a serious problem with giving parents choices. But, shouldn't the schools that HAVE all the money already be the one's that sacrifice for everyone else? Inner-city schools are struggling already with funding issues that mean fewer computers, fewer counselors, class overcrowding, lower quality teachers (less pay) and poorer overall physical conditions. The reason kids struggle is because of a combination of stress in the home, a tough environment and lack of access to the things many of us take for granted - safe schools, cars, computers, internet access. I am all for improving the quality of life for students in impoverished areas. I'm all for giving them a better chance at success. But, the way you do that is give them REAL choice. Pay for ANY school they choose to attend and give parents enough for transportation, uniforms, books and a computer to use at home. Give them free internet access. Whatever. Of course, that probably goes too far for those who want to lower government spending and that's fine. The fact is that many kids who might have had a chance will be given up on because of the stripping of funds to their schools. It isn't their fault that they were born into poverty. It isn't their responsibility to educate and raise themselves. I'd rather do EVERYTHING necessary to give them a chance than just say, "Pass or go to jail" which is exactly where many of them will end up. ------------------ The way to use life is to do nothing through acting, The way to use life is to do everything through being. - Lao-Tzu
I think the Chronicle dropped the ball on this one. (NO! ) MSNBC has a good story on the education plan for the new administration -- with the key point being that they don't expect it to include vouchers. The initial proposal from the White House will include vouchers -- giving lip service to the idea to appease conservatives and keep the idea open for discussion in the future. (It sounds like this is as far as the Chronicle got.) However, the Bush administration expects to negotiate this out quickly, in order to quickly pass a well supported package. The plan will be centered around simplifying and increasing federal school funding, and standardized testing. ------------------ Stay Cool...
Jeff, you are right that $1,500 isn't close to enough money to pay for private education. I would expect the plan, if it passed like this, would create a new niche in the education industry where private schools are run like public schools -- big, run-down, cheap, under-funded, and sorry -- but remain private so that the government couldn't close them for sucking. However, I don't see how you can fix the program without introducing some accountability in some way. His plan actually mirrors Gorbachev plan in the '80s to make collective farms more productive. Under his plan, collective farms that didn't produce were given more and more money to rebuild capital stock, but after 3 years, if they weren't profitable, they were closed. It is unclear if this was a good plan or not, however, since the government collapsed before too much longer. It is much the same problem, and I can't fault Bush for following in Gorbachev's footsteps (since he's my hero). The only difference was that in the USSR, the farms were treated more as subsidiary companies than schools are treated within the education system in the States. Without changing the economics of schooling I don't see how govt can fix this problem. As you imply, if the govt was willing to shell out 15 grand a year per student, we could get a fine education for a lot of poor students. But that's not going to happen. ------------------ RealGM Rockets Draft Obligations Summary http://www.gaffordstudios.cjb.net/
Clutch: Sorry, couldn't help myself! Juan: You are correct. I could not agree more. There must be accountibility and there must be more options. This is just the wrong way to do it. DC: I thought that sounded a little too difficult to pass. Thanks for posting that info. That makes more sense. See, I don't have a problem with better schools or competition at all. Personally, I think schools should be our number one priority in terms of spending and attention. If education got even one fifth what the military got in terms of total budget, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. The point is that there must be more creative solutions to the problems in our schools and robbing the poor to give to the rich isn't exactly the best way to go about doing that. However, I don't really think we need to rob anyone to do it. The money and the resources are out there. ------------------ The way to use life is to do nothing through acting, The way to use life is to do everything through being. - Lao-Tzu
I strongly disagree with the voucher system, but i also disagree with you Jeff. Firstly, even if the American people did pay for impoverished children to attend private schooling (usually around 10000$ anually), the government could not force these schools to accept the children. remember, PRIVATE schools reserve the right to deny admission as they see fit. also, these children might not be up to the educational rigors of an expensive private school. it would seem like hell to them. the thinking behind private schools is that the families that can afford to attend, attend. its not up to the government to provide the means for everyone to attend. also, your suggestions would be extremely expensive. taking money away from underperforming schools is not the solution. ------------------ The next time I have meat and mashed potatoes, I think I'll put a very large blob of potatoes on my plate with just a little piece of meat. And if someone asks me why i didn't get more meat, ill just say, "Oh, you mean this?" and pull out a big piece of meat from inside the blob of potatoes, where ive hidden it. Good magic trick, huh?
nomar: Perhaps you misread me. First off, the story was not MY suggestion. It is a story about what the Bush administration is proposing. This: I am all for improving the quality of life for students in impoverished areas. I'm all for giving them a better chance at success. But, the way you do that is give them REAL choice. Pay for ANY school they choose to attend and give parents enough for transportation, uniforms, books and a computer to use at home. Give them free internet access. Whatever. Of course, that probably goes too far for those who want to lower government spending and that's fine. was an exaggeration on purpose to demonstrate just how far we would have to go to really give kids a shot at a private school education. I totally agree that private schools are not the solution to America's growing education problems. Fixing the public schools is the only long-term option. However, I disagree that poor kids couldn't necessarily compete educationally. There have been studies that have shown that poor kids expected to succeed from a young age excelled in the same numbers as kids with parents of means. What they need is early-age intervention to give them the basis for long-term success as adolescents and adults. However, if you don't get them early, you are correct in the assertion that it would be difficult for them to catch up and keep up. The expectation level is just so different for kids in poor neighborhoods than it is for kids in rich neighborhoods and that is a significant part of the problem. ------------------ The way to use life is to do nothing through acting, The way to use life is to do everything through being. - Lao-Tzu
Juan: A private school that's run down, cheap, under-funded, and sorry. I went to one of those when I lived in Hawaii. ------------------
CAN YOU SAY DE-FACTO SEGREGATION? That's right boys and girls Now the Privated School will get Public Money and can still discriminate indiscriminately Sure they may have to go through all the trouble of making up some arbitrary and easily ambiguous reason to keep *THOSE KIND OF PEOPLE* out of the their schools but. . . I knew Bush was going to take us back . . but I only thought we would go back to 1988-92 not 1888. [When I lived in La. when some left the public school to goto 'Private' School. . . it was really to goto the all white school.] Rocket River lost friends because of it . .. *shrug* I guess for the Gov. Wallace type folx happy days are here again ------------------
River -- polls taken on the subject show that the majority of blacks support vouchers. Obviously you are in disagreement with them. It is my understanding that private schools would not be getting any money, the parents would. If the school decides to 'discrimminate', the parents can go someplace else. Stop it with the scare tactics. ------------------ "Why can't dip be a meal?" -David Puddy The Hunger Site
I can't let Rocket River's segregation stupidity go unanswered. Read up Rocket River, especially the national board of advisers and then come back and tell us how scholarship opportunities and school choice for low income children is de facto segregation. Tell us how Andrew Young, MLK III, Robert L. Johnson, and Colin Powell are segregationists and George Wallace type "folx." www.scholarshipfund.org/index.asp ------------------
...and their board of advisors includes a former HUD secretary who was driven from office in disgrace (Henry Cisneros), Oprah Winfrey's boyfriend (Stedman Graham), one of the lousiest rappers and most annoying humans on the planet (Will Smith), and BK's all-time political hero (Charles Rangel). Wow! Cool! Where do I sign...NOT! ------------------ "Blues is a Healer" --John Lee Hooker
i think that his voucher program is so stupid. That takes away $1500 per child from the public school system. Most of that money goes to paying teachers(and they still arent payed enough). Teachers would lose even more money and quality would probably go down I also dont like how so many charter schools are getting grants. Funding for charter schools has gone from nine million dollars in 96 to over 120 million this year. Most public schools have much higher education standards than charter schools. 40% of students at charter schools pass the taas to 80% at public schools. ------------------ President of the Charles Barkley fan club...Oh he retired? When?
I posted a thread asking how a government can reduce taxes, revenue, while increasing spending, military increases, and balancing the budget sometime back. Now we're starting to see HOW. Also, if you are a teacher, married/engaged/living with a teacher, or related to a teacher, support such programs, and yet complain loudly about teachers not making their worth, how ridiculous it is for athletes to make millions while teachers make crumbs, etc., PLEASE GO PLAY IN TRAFFIC RIGHT NOW!! ------------------ "ON-BEE-TAH-BULL!!", Hakeem Abdul Olajuwon, alumnus, University of Houston
