You talk about BS, this is BS and you know it is. You are just making excuses for why JVG sees things differently than you do. JVG has been nothing but honest about player performances so far. Hes called out Moochie. Hes called out Steve. And now that hes called out Yao, he is just manipulating the media?? Sure RIET. Apparently, you missed JVG's quote in the preseason about Moochie's awful play. Here it is: "He played a horrific offensive game, eight turnovers. I mean really bad," Van Gundy said about the game in Portland. Seems to me that JVG calls it like he sees it. BS again. So he cant come out and critisize the guards but he can come out and critisize Yao??? Agreed. Somewhat agree. Because they arent the best passers, Yao has a responsibility to make sure an entry pass can be made as easy as possible. This isn't what happened Riet. Yao was not fronted. He was allowing his man to come around 3/4 and deny the ball. Yao's man was able to do this very quickly and Yao never could get himself repositioned (sliding his feet, turning, etc.). It wasnt about a weakside defender, it was about not being able to make an entry pass. If Yao's defender stays behind him, then the weakside defender is almost irevelevant to him actually getting the ball. Agreed. As stated before, difficult passes had to be made abnormal angles. Yao is used to getting clean entry passes, not bounce passes, etc. Why cant we strive to make it where the guards dont have to throw lobs and bounce passes at him?? Somewhat agree. Depends on the situation though. Again, pure BS. This is just you making excuses for why JVG doesn't see things they way you do. JVG has already made numerous statements that dont quite fit in with your "protecting the players" view point.
Absolutely, 100% incorrect. There are techniques that are tought to help a post player keep his man behind him. I am sure over time, Ewing will help Yao with these techniques. Yes, but can Yao get the shot up before the defender gets to him. I have no doubts that he can catch it, but because he lacks a quick jump, the help defender is already there to contest the shot. The best scenario, or one of the best IMO, would be to have Yao cut across the lane from the weakside and have our 4 set a pick for him, and time the pass to where Yao receives it before Yao's man recovers from the picks. Rudy tried this in practice last year and could never get it to work because Cato was much quicker recovering from the pick than Yao was cutting across the lane. They need to make BETTEr decisions in passing the ball to Yao, and Yao needs to work on his positioning/sealing. Its a two way street, with neither side being exempt from criticism. So which is it??? The guards need to make quicker entry passes or they need to be more patient???
Facts are facts. Thats right. Are you saying thats it not a fact that Yao had trouble keeping his man behind him???? If you are saying that its not, then we watched two different games. If you are saying that it is a fact, then you have to agree with me that this is something Yao has to work on and that it was a factor in last night's loss. Against Seattle, Dream definitely had less touches than he did normally, but would fight his man from getting around or in front of him to lessen that disparity. See a pattern of what I am talking about? Go back and look at the tape. Once Yao's man came around 3/4, there was little he was doing to counteract that, other than to call for for a bounce pass on his right side. Coincidentally, this is low % pass for a big man, and hence, the reason why we saw some TOs result from it. The loss of the game falls directly on the shoulder of every player on the team. Everyone made mistakes, including Steve, including Cat, including Moochie, including Taylor and including Yao. I will agree that our inability to get the ball up the court in a timely manner was the primary problem. But Yao having problems keeping his man behind him contributed. Im not trying to place the blame for the loss all on Yaos shoulders. Im trying to say that he is not exempt because he was 7/11 and scored 19 points.
Yao is just so slow out there and immobile. There is absoltely no room for error when passing the ball to him. If the pass is too high, Yao's not going to be able to jump high enough to catch it. If it's too low, he's not going to be able to reach down to get it. If it's too fast, he's not quick enough get to the ball. If it's too slow, his defender (who's usually much quicker than him) can go right around him and steal the ball. So unless the pass is a perfectly crisp pass right to his chest, it's going to result in a turnover.
This has nothing to do with how I see things or how JVG sees things. It's just part of the job. All coaches do it. When a player is shooting 68% from the field, you make every effort to get him the ball. The PG's primary responsibility to distribute the ball and setup teammates. It is his responsibility to make the good passes. The PG should be your best passer period. It should be unequivocal. Yao does not and should not be expected to setup in perfect position to receive passes. The guards hesitate and fail to make good quick decisions. How do we know this? No NBA team does back court traps. Why? Because any legitimate NBA backcourt would destroy the press and find teammates for easy scores. When Rick Pitino tried it in Boston, it was a miserable failure. What happened yesterday was typical. They waste 15 seconds dribbling the ball to half court because they don't have the court vision to find teammates. Instead they try to dribble around the press wasting the majority of the shot clock. That is asinine. When you have that type of stupidity, how can you point the blame anywhere else? it's incomprehensible to me how NBA guards can barely bring the ball upcourt. It is this type of incompetent guard play that is responsible for our offensive failures. I understand trying to spread around the blame but it's really not there.
I said this in another thread and I will say it again. Yao Ming is the one and only player on the team that can say positive things happened the vast majority of the time that he touched the ball.
JVG specifically said that the fronting of Yao was a problem last night. So either you are saying he is lying or that he is wrong and you are righgt. There is no grey area here. And when a player is shooting 68% from the field, he has to make every effort to make sure he can get the ball. Two way street RIET. Just admit it. I agree. And a PG's teamates have to make sure they can get open to get the pass. Two way street. #1) It doesnt take perfect position to receive an entry pass. It does take preventing your man from coming around 3/4 to deny the pass. #2) Yao absolutely SHOULD be required to do everything he can do to make sure a clean entry pass can be made. Agreed. One of many problems this team has. There isnt a player on this team that doesnt have something that they could be better at. Agreed. The problem was amplified last night because Memphis threw some hellacious D at us last night that we had absolutely no advanced scouting on. Thats not to say the players should not be prepared for that possibility. However, teams tend to struggle against something the 1st time they see it. As Ive said before, if this happens next time we play Memphis, then I would be quicker to blame the guards for all of our shortcomings. Agreed. You point the blame in all areas that came up short. The guards couldnt get the ball up the court. That was a problem. Yao couldnt get his man sealed off. That was a problem. To point your finger at one problem and dismiss all the other problems is unfair to everyone on the team. BS again. All mistakes contribute to last nights loss, with some more than others. No player should get off the hook.
Completely agree. There were times he couldnt touch the ball though. Both Yao and the guards have to work together to make sure he gets as many touches as he needs to be effective. Sorry to keep repeating myself, but its a two way street.
Yes, he shares the same blame as the player who goes 2 for 10 with 4 turnovers, or the player making boneheaded lob passes on a 3-1 fastbreak committing 6 turnovers or a player who insists on dribbling past a double team in the backcourt because he can't find the open teammate. Fine, you want to say Yao contributed to the loss despite shooting 60% from the field with 10 rebs and 3 blocks, go ahead. No one plays a perfect game but you can't just lump it and say it's everyone's fault. It's called proportionality. At this point, he is clearly the most composed player on this team. He also has better passing touch than our guards which is an absolute disgrace.
If you guys think that Yao did a good job of getting into position after the 2nd period, you didn't watch the game If you guys don't think that Yao isn't at fault for not getting in position, you are wrong. Van Gundy will tell you that. Ewing will tell you that. Yao will tell you that. Olajuwon would tell you that. Chamberlain would tell you that Jabbar would tell you that. Shaq would tell you that. Yes, Moochie played like ass. Yes, Mobley took some quick shots. Yes, Yao did good things, mostly, when he got the ball. But, he made mistakes too. Shocking that a second year player would make a mistake now and then, but true.
RIET, He shares SOME blame. Im not trying to assign % of blame here. I am saying that Yao's positioning is a problem. And that problem was a factor in last nights loss. That is a fact. Yes, I do want to say that. Yaos good game doesnt mean he didnt make mistakes. Come on RIET. If Steve shot 7/11 with 19 pts and 10 rebounds, you would be the first to jump on him if he happened to only have 3 or 4 assists and we loss. Someone having a good game doesnt mean they didnt make mistakes that contributed to a loss. You absolutely can. Every turnover, every missed shot, every missed FT. Every player was involved in that. So all their mistakes counted regardless of whatever else they did. Agreed. Even better reason for him to make sure hes always in a position to get a high % entry pass. He has a better passing touch than alot of guards in this league. That being said, there are other players on the team that are better at things that he should be better at.
wrong. Yao was getting good position most of the time and he's not always going to get position deep in the post, Shaq doesn't even do that. Obviously if he catches within 5 ft. of the rim it's ideal but the reality is that he's not always going to get that position. Compared to last year, he's getting much better position.
Totally agree with you!!! Everyone if watched the game, can tell that Yao is 98% responsible for this loss, and the others about 2%.
That is absolutely not true. I have always given Francis his props. Last year I was amazed when he played against Washington with his back spasms. He literally carried the team against Sacramento when we came back from a huge deficit only to lose by 2. I have never questioned his heart or his willingness to make adjusments. I have also stated that I did not think Yao would ever be a true franchise player because of his lack of lateral quickness and his somewhat slow reflexes. This is why he has problems grabbing rebounds. However, the facts are Yao has significantly improved his game while Francis and Mobley continue to struggle with basic guard duties. They struggle with their decision making and make boneheaded plays veterans should not be making. As far as other players having better skills than Yao, that is 100% incorrect. Cato is a better rebounder and better shot blocker but that's no disgrace. Yao is pretty much on par with the other guards in terms of shooting touch, passing ability, FT shooting, and is better at all the center duties including shot blocking and rebounding. He is also a better decision maker. This scares me.
You have spoken my mind and sentiments on this thread repeatedly. Thanks. There is no earthly reason why Yao should not talk the ball every freaking time down court. Even Divac who is not as good as Yao is now touches the ball almost all the time for a vaunted Sac Kings offense. There is no excuse for stupidity and dumb basketball. All our guards are looking for is excuses to jack up the ball. How about moving the freaking ball around for a change. Why do they feel it is better to masturbate with the ball and jack up LOW PERCENTAGE shots with less than 10 secs on the shot clock? Why don't we learn from our errors and mistakes of yore? Heck if I was Yao I would be tired of running up and down the court aimlessly, watching my dumb guards practise 'STUPIDITISM' with the ball. Basket ball was not mearnt to be this difficult. The ball is your court, JVG. We have suffered enough in the last few years.
Just a few thoughts on passing the ball to Yao when he is fronted: 1) clear the damn court for Yao. Lob passes are already hard, don't make them harder by clustering the space around Yao. 2) When fronted, Yao may consider come out a bit from where he wanted to post last night. The more space Yao leave behind him, the easier a lob pass is. 3) If defense don't front him when he comes out, fine. As we can see, Yao can back out a lot of players this year. Besides, with the defense he faced last night, he can shoot over their heads any time. I'd rather have Yao catch the ball 8 feet from the basket and work his way in or shoot jigh % jumpers, than trying the lob passes, before our guards and Yao practise that out.
I cannot believe that you are this satisfied with Mooch's plain incompetency, Cat's taking bad shots, and Taylor's softness under basket. Those alone account for 50% to our loss. And there are no-look passes and jumping into air not know what to do from SF, wasted fast breaks, questionable perimeter defenses, JVG's leaving Yao on bench too long in clutch time, etc. Yao has things to work on, but he is not 98% responsible for this loss, not anywhere close. After, he did well on defending the paint. Most Memphis's scores in paint were over Mo, and then Cato.
codell: are you in effect saying everyone who plays on the team is responsible for every loss? I find it hard to accept your reasoning, as by your logic, even if someone, for eg. Francis had near perfect stats, shot 14/14, 10 assists, played to the maximum of his ability, etc, but had 1 turnover as the only blemish, you "absolutely" can blame everyone (Francis included) for the loss? I think RIET has a point about proportionality, and I think those putting the majority of the blame on Yao are wrong for the reasons mentioned by the others defending him.
Riet, Looks like we have reached a consensus somewhat. My whole poing in pointing out Yao's mistakes is that they count as much as anyones. I have never tried to put this loss on his shoulders, but rather, to let let his mistakes be overlooked when critisizing the rest of the players. He is not beyond reproach anymore than Steve or anybody else is. The whole team made errors that helped lose the game, with some more than others.
